A Political Thread pt. 2

[McTallshort]

Would the 100,000 more deaths than expected in Iraq since the 2003 war be seen as a genocide. Or is it dependent on definition?

Well it was an illegal war and if those 100k were people killed by coalition forces then yeah it would be a genocide particularly if it's aimed at one particular part of the population

 

[dirty harry]

I wouldn't call Egypt or Jordan allies but I would say they are complicit in the deaths of thousands.
I may be wrong but they are not helping Israel directly, in fact Israel would indeed love for those countries to take them in, it makes taking over Gaza less messier and would've saved ammo

Agreed. Egypt and Jordan have been hardline against letting Palestinians in, but if we consider this a genocide, they are 100% complicit as is the Arab world for not responding, and offering 0 to help in way of refuge, plus the USA for conti uing funding.

 

[Saintjay]

Honestly I would be fine with calling the Iraq war a genocide tbh, I don't think it fits the definition but the damage is akin to it.

Again I don't support the Iraq war

Which is why the whole things a mess. If it is a genocide. The British and US army are culpable and can't use the following order defence. I remember people saying Blair is a war criminal but on that basis so were the soldiers.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Safer Zones? Really in Gaza?

Yep.

 

[Welsh Exile]

70% of the buildings destroyed? How the **** do justify that?

By making sure you do what you can to spare civilian casualties.

 

[Welsh Exile]

So what is the question? Why didn't people stay in their homes to die?

Yes, pretty much. I wouldn’t put it so crudely but yes.

 

[dirty harry]

Which is why the whole things a mess. If it is a genocide. The British and US army are culpable and can't use the following order defence. I remember people saying Blair is a war criminal but on that basis so were the soldiers.

Im not sure that aligns, unless you consider genocide. Blair is a war criminal, but he led the soldiers deceptively, if only the ICC had backbone!!!

 

[dirty harry]

By making sure you do what you can to spare civilian casualties.

Like leaflet drops or double tapping as a warning?

 

[McTallshort]

By making sure you do what you can to spare civilian casualties.

So you blow up their house to stop you killing them?

 

[Welsh Exile]

Like leaflet drops or double tapping as a warning?

Phone calls too I believe.

 

[Saintjay]

Im not sure that aligns, unless you consider genocide. Blair is a war criminal, but he led the soldiers deceptively, if only the ICC had backbone!!!

Good point. The mp's voted for it as well if I recall.

Jesus i hope the British Army are not that stupid they always believe everything they are told by government or we'd be America.

 

[McTallshort]

Which is why the whole things a mess. If it is a genocide. The British and US army are culpable and can't use the following order defence. I remember people saying Blair is a war criminal but on that basis so were the soldiers.

That's a tricky one. If the soldiers did anything outside their ROE then yes they can be tried as war Criminals. The invasion though is a bit trickier. Was the war illegal? I would say so but that is a political decision so the consequences sit with the government at the time. Now if the government had them passed down an order to kill civilians and the soldiers obey that then they become war criminals along with the government.

 

[McTallshort]

Good point. The mp's voted for it as well if I recall.

Jesus i hope the British Army are not that stupid they always believe everything they are told by government or we'd be America.

No they are not but then neither are the Americans, well the ones I met anyway

 

[Welsh Exile]

So you blow up their house to stop you killing them?

My guess would be that the argument goes something like, building A is a military target for X reasons (would have to produce intelligence of why it is and how the destruction of it is beneficial for Isreal militarily).

Building A is occupied largely with civilians so in order to bomb building A certain steps have to be taken to ensure the safety of as many civilians as possible (obviously you can not do this if you're a Putin or not a liberal democracy)

Said steps are taken (phone calls, warning shots, leaflet dropping, tannoy announcements etc etc) and you then bomb the building.

 

[McTallshort]

My guess would be that the argument goes something like, building A is a military target for X reasons (would have to produce intelligence of why it is and how the destruction of it is beneficial for Isreal militarily).

Building A is occupied largely with civilians so in order to bomb building A certain steps have to be taken to ensure the safety of as many civilians as possible (obviously you can not do this if you're a Putin or not a liberal democracy)

Said steps are taken (phone calls, warning shots, leaflet dropping, tannoy announcements etc etc) and you then bomb the building.

Unnecessary destruction of human property is a war crime and against the articles of the Geneva convention

 

[McTallshort]

My guess would be that the argument goes something like, building A is a military target for X reasons (would have to produce intelligence of why it is and how the destruction of it is beneficial for Isreal militarily).

So you don't actually know?

 

[dirty harry]

Good point. The mp's voted for it as well if I recall.

Jesus i hope the British Army are not that stupid they always believe everything they are told by government or we'd be America.

Ye, I'm sure the ICC deemed that the war didnt fall under their jurisdiction or some other nonsense to abdicate themselves.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Unnecessary destruction of human property is a war crime and against the articles of the Geneva convention

The first thing I said basically was I would imagine the first thing they would have to do is show that building A is a military target.

 

[Saintjay]

No they are not but then neither are the Americans, well the ones I met anyway

I was being a tad flippant tbh. Saying that some of the US Marines and armoured infantry i met. Thinking for themselves or in general wasn't a strong point but boy could they follow orders to the letter. Some UK squaddies were equaly as bad.

 

[dirty harry]

Unnecessary destruction of human property is a war crime and against the articles of the Geneva convention

So is using that same building and the civilians there as a shield...