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You're assuming there'll be another democrat president...
I don't see them going as far as not holding "free and fair" elections just yet - but they're preparing to purge the voter rolls or demographics that vote Dem, and suppress those they don't manage to purge.

See post #1635 above
 
You're assuming there'll be another democrat president...
I don't see them going as far as not holding "free and fair" elections just yet - but they're preparing to purge the voter rolls or demographics that vote Dem, and suppress those they don't manage to purge.

See post #1635 above

I mean, that's being done organically isnt it. California and New York are due to lose seats next election due to demographic change.

Interestingly the deportation numbers pale in comparison to Obamas...

Trump has deported 56k in 6 months, Obama in his first year of his 2nd term deported 400k plus. Thats 4 x the rate Trump is currently executing.

Obama even expanded fast tracks, with his aggressive use of things like expedited removals, and the rocket dockets.

This point is not to say well Obama did it so it's ok, I actually think there should be some sort of amnesty before securing the border, my point is, when Obama utilised and expanded presidential power, it set a president for despot wannabes like Trump to utilise also.

The Democrats are great at that, not planning for the future better, and now they are reaping the rewards.
 
When this gets to the supreme court it's going to be a very dangerous precedent. This is blatantly retaliatory action against people and institutions that are not his allies. If the supreme court allows it, then they are also allowing a future Democrat to do the same. All the powers they give Trump to ignore the other branches of checks and balances won't end with him.

Wasn't there a supreme court ruling in 2023 that ruled against affirmative action practices already?

I'd have to go and check..

Ye, students for fair admissions vs Harvard.

So if, as is being alleged U of C is still using race as an admission tool, theyre breaking the law no?
 
Wasn't there a supreme court ruling in 2023 that ruled against affirmative action practices already?

I'd have to go and check..

Ye, students for fair admissions vs Harvard.

So if, as is being alleged U of C is still using race as an admission tool, theyre breaking the law no?
If that's the real reason. In the same way as anti Semitism had been used for Harvard, or a whole multitude of things for tariffs, it feels more now like they decide on the outcome first then look for justification after

They are doing the same with the federal reserve, they've decided in the outcome of firing Powell and are now scrabbling around looking for a way to justify it.
 
If that's the real reason. In the same way as anti Semitism had been used for Harvard, or a whole multitude of things for tariffs, it feels more now like they decide on the outcome first then look for justification after

They are doing the same with the federal reserve, they've decided in the outcome of firing Powell and are now scrabbling around looking for a way to justify it.

Then only addition id make here, is that there are a lot of firings, financial restrictions and restructures in place, Trumps administration is just waiting for the reason to implement them, instead of doing it and conjuring a reason.

I dont think the supreme court case was an antisemitism row originally was it, I may be wrong but I think it started as an anti Asian bias, as Asian boys were being disproportionately effected for admissions affirmative action.
 
Then only addition id make here, is that there are a lot of firings, financial restrictions and restructures in place, Trumps administration is just waiting for the reason to implement them, instead of doing it and conjuring a reason.

I dont think the supreme court case was an antisemitism row originally was it, I may be wrong but I think it started as an anti Asian bias, as Asian boys were being disproportionately effected for admissions affirmative action.
Let's be honest, do we honestly believe the Trump administration gives a rats arse about equality in universities? It's also interesting how only unis in blue states are being hit. Ultimately there is very little to indicate that the stated reasons for the actions being taken is the actual reason.
 
Let's be honest, do we honestly believe the Trump administration gives a rats arse about equality in universities? It's also interesting how only unis in blue states are being hit. Ultimately there is very little to indicate that the stated reasons for the actions being taken is the actual reason.

I believe the MAGA call it 'draining the swamp'.

Thats the problem with the genius of this, the marketing of these actions started in 2015, with the promises to totally obliterate politics as we know it, I think we all agree that Democrats designed the wrong type of strategy to deal with it then, and they havnt pivoted at all to a better one, they just lose battle after battle.

A MAGA friend of mine had the greatest comeback while we were discussing the brutality of the deportations, he responded with 'dont threaten me with a great time'. They literally voted for all of this, and no condemnation by the media of things they want will change their minds.

Its coming to Europe too, if we dont combat it with a better strategy than calling everyone racist sexist and homophobic who disagree with us, we'll start to see Starmer lean further and further right than he already has.
 
I believe the MAGA call it 'draining the swamp'.

Thats the problem with the genius of this, the marketing of these actions started in 2015, with the promises to totally obliterate politics as we know it, I think we all agree that Democrats designed the wrong type of strategy to deal with it then, and they havnt pivoted at all to a better one, they just lose battle after battle.

A MAGA friend of mine had the greatest comeback while we were discussing the brutality of the deportations, he responded with 'dont threaten me with a great time'. They literally voted for all of this, and no condemnation by the media of things they want will change their minds.

Its coming to Europe too, if we dont combat it with a better strategy than calling everyone racist sexist and homophobic who disagree with us, we'll start to see Starmer lean further and further right than he already has.
I really don't agree with this framing that the reason Trump/Brexit etc succeeded was because the left call everyone racist. It's ********.

I agree the marketing and campaigning of it was very good and, in my humble opinion, goes a long way to explain the success than the left calling people horrible names.

The right wing media/influencers are also much better at uniting behind a common cause as well.
 
Is Trump actually a conservative/republican at heart or is he just following a script written by Miller and Bannon? Didn't he try to run as a Dem before but got blocked? He's a New Yorker after all and so in theory should be a bit liberal at least. Joining the Republican party would be typical of him giving a middle finger to the Dems for blocking him as we all know he loves to hold a grudge.

I mean he's not fooling anyone when he stands in front of a church holding a bible or when he talks about God after he converted to Catholicism in 2019.

Boris wasn't a Brexiteer but some people will happily switch sides if there is chance of gaining power.
 
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I really don't agree with this framing that the reason Trump/Brexit etc succeeded was because the left call everyone racist. It's ********.

I agree the marketing and campaigning of it was very good and, in my humble opinion, goes a long way to explain the success than the left calling people horrible names.

The right wing media/influencers are also much better at uniting behind a common cause as well.

Im not saying the societal name calling was totally to blame, but it seemed to be the only strategy in 2015, if your thinking about voting Trump your a deplorable racist, sexist, homophobic POS... here we are 10 years later, and Trump has gone from strength to strength, converting large swathes of the country and could very well spark a generation of Republican rule (mind you i also said similar when Obama won in 2009, so what do I know).

Social media is fascinating, I think the reason it feels right wing, is that, and I can't believe i say this, the left gave up free speech and common sense.

There was never a right wing social media until recently, they were fringe. Those who are here now, Crowder, Shapiro, Owens, Kirk etc are all as infighting as the lefts versions, the difference is the lefts versions are psychotically unlikable. Maddow, Tapper, Sharpton and Stewart are main stream stalwarts, but the likes of Medias, TYT, Cohen and Hasan are wildly nefarious.

It almost feels like both sides on social media provoke the other on purpose, and farm content from each other debunking or embarrassing the other side. Honestly it wouldnt surprise me if they had an annual meet up with each other and patted each other on the back for how rich they've all become
 
Is Trump actually a conservative/republican at heart or is he just following a script written by Miller and Bannon? Didn't he try to run as a Dem before but got blocked? He's a New Yorker after all and so in theory should be a bit liberal at least. Joining the Republican party would be typical of him giving a middle finger to the Dems for blocking him as we all know he loves to hold a grudge.

I mean he's not fooling anyone when he stands in front of a church holding a bible or when he talks about God after he converted to Catholicism in 2019.

Boris wasn't a Brexiteer but some people will happily switch sides if there is chance of gaining power.

He's the least Republican Republican you will ever see, he lived his entire life as a Democrat before running as Republican. He also said it out loud didnt he, running as a Republican because they were more gullible.

This is why I dont see him as the greater threat, its the movement he leaves as his legacy, the ultra conservative MAGA values.
 
Im not saying the societal name calling was totally to blame, but it seemed to be the only strategy in 2015, if your thinking about voting Trump your a deplorable racist, sexist, homophobic POS... here we are 10 years later, and Trump has gone from strength to strength, converting large swathes of the country and could very well spark a generation of Republican rule (mind you i also said similar when Obama won in 2009, so what do I know).

Social media is fascinating, I think the reason it feels right wing, is that, and I can't believe i say this, the left gave up free speech and common sense.

There was never a right wing social media until recently, they were fringe. Those who are here now, Crowder, Shapiro, Owens, Kirk etc are all as infighting as the lefts versions, the difference is the lefts versions are psychotically unlikable. Maddow, Tapper, Sharpton and Stewart are main stream stalwarts, but the likes of Medias, TYT, Cohen and Hasan are wildly nefarious.

It almost feels like both sides on social media provoke the other on purpose, and farm content from each other debunking or embarrassing the other side. Honestly it wouldnt surprise me if they had an annual meet up with each other and patted each other on the back for how rich they've all become
I agree it's a factor but it's minimal. The reason is the same reason right wing ideas flourish in any other time……….sustained periods of economic decline and inevitably populists come along and exploit that. How opponents react to that is important but no way near as significant as the economy and people getting shafted/left behind.
 
I agree it's a factor but it's minimal. The reason is the same reason right wing ideas flourish in any other time……….sustained periods of economic decline and inevitably populists come along and exploit that. How opponents react to that is important but no way near as significant as the economy and people getting shafted/left behind.

But in 2015 life was good, the housing crisis was mitigated by Obama, and he even won a 2nd term after it, the economy was on the up. Infact, id make the argument things were primed for conservatives by your metric im 2012 not 2016.

The key issues were racial tensions on the rise during Obamas presidency, Sanders benefited from the economic inequality issue mostly, and gun violence was prevelant.

I'd say the trust in government was the biggest factor for Trump, Obama failed on his promises, partly his fault, partly not, and the anti establishment sentiment became too much. Trump was a free speaking no nonsense, swearing, joke cracking wrecking ball of a personality. Grab em by the pussy, hell ye, Mexicans are rapists yee haw!!!!!

He could have easily been stopped though, by not lowering into the gutter, attacking half the country, and most importantly with integrity. Every thing he said and did was twisted into a mistruth, and conservatives were there to show raw footage and context. It baffles me to this day that the media, Hollywood and Democrats still do this knowing it doesnt work, and even if it was effective its too late in the day to do anything now, he's nye on untouchable.

Again, a MAGA friend told me the night of the election last year, that Democrats are going to wish Trump won 2020 when he wins for his 2nd term, because it would have had checks and balances, instead over the 4 years Trump acquired such a base he now he is nearly an despot. Bugger me was he right.

EDIT: just to clarify, this was regards to Trp initially, I think 2024 you are 100% correct, the economy was the issue.
 
But in 2015 life was good, the housing crisis was mitigated by Obama, and he even won a 2nd term after it, the economy was on the up. Infact, id make the argument things were primed for conservatives by your metric im 2012 not 2016.

The key issues were racial tensions on the rise during Obamas presidency, Sanders benefited from the economic inequality issue mostly, and gun violence was prevelant.

I'd say the trust in government was the biggest factor for Trump, Obama failed on his promises, partly his fault, partly not, and the anti establishment sentiment became too much. Trump was a free speaking no nonsense, swearing, joke cracking wrecking ball of a personality. Grab em by the pussy, hell ye, Mexicans are rapists yee haw!!!!!

He could have easily been stopped though, by not lowering into the gutter, attacking half the country, and most importantly with integrity. Every thing he said and did was twisted into a mistruth, and conservatives were there to show raw footage and context. It baffles me to this day that the media, Hollywood and Democrats still do this knowing it doesnt work, and even if it was effective its too late in the day to do anything now, he's nye on untouchable.

Again, a MAGA friend told me the night of the election last year, that Democrats are going to wish Trump won 2020 when he wins for his 2nd term, because it would have had checks and balances, instead over the 4 years Trump acquired such a base he now he is nearly an despot. Bugger me was he right.
To be fair I was more thinking uk wise when I wrote that but there's some fair points in there.

I just don't even think screaming "your racist" was even a thing. I know Hilary called half of trumps fanbase a basket of deplorables (lol) but I think most of it was just a social media thing

Maybe more true over here with brexit and Fararge but even then as discussed in here before where remain went wrong was running too much on the negatives (economic impact) and not enough on the positives
 
I have to agree i got called a bad name so voted for arseholes is such a childish excuse. Grown adults do that its more like I got called a bad name and now that's an an easy excuse to explain publically why I voted for arseholes.
Seriously ask yourself this, how many people who whinge about what they were/are called by the left would of actually voted Democrat/Labour?

I do think the left has a "selling itself" as opposed "arguing against" problem.
 
Seriously ask yourself this, how many people who whinge about what they were/are called by the left would of actually voted Democrat/Labour?

I do think the left has a "selling itself" as opposed "arguing against" problem.
I swear it’s largely just a cleverly manufactured thing from the right wing media.

Look, all these people think your racists and they’re trying to take away your culture/insert any right wing ******** talking point here.
 
I swear it's largely just a cleverly manufactured thing from the right wing media.

Look, all these people think your racists and they're trying to take away your culture/insert any right wing ******** talking point here.
Left on left attacks are far worse and split the vote the UK. I do think under Corbyn his supporters sucked ass and probably led to to LD/Green votes but that was more criticising him in anyway.
 
To be fair I was more thinking uk wise when I wrote that but there's some fair points in there.

I just don't even think screaming "your racist" was even a thing. I know Hilary called half of trumps fanbase a basket of deplorables (lol) but I think most of it was just a social media thing

Maybe more true over here with brexit and Fararge but even then as discussed in here before where remain went wrong was running too much on the negatives (economic impact) and not enough on the positives

I dont know, I was called racist a LOT when Trump won, mostly by people who never followed politics until Trump appeared, but I get your point.

I dont think its as simple as being called a name makes you want to vote against them, but the culture certainly pressured and scared a lot of Americans into thinking Tru.p was the answer to the societal hate they seemed to be getting.

That said i also think the powers that be have been great as of late, both in USA and UK of getting everybody to think they are a victim of something, like to a single person near everyone I can tell beleives they need some sort of victim points, whether it be their race, sex, disability, weight, height, or even geographically.

I think the marketing to an outcome, rather than marketing to fear of the opposition outcome is a very valid point that lends across the ocean, Hilary certainly did it, as did the Brexit campaign.

I think that's why we are seeing some better representation now, look at Mamdanis campaign.
 

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