A Political Thread pt. 2

[AlRums]

This is a borderline disgusting comment. Imagine being concerned about racism in the west and saying "well, I'd say half the countries in Africa are doing a pretty good job of that without any help" it implies it's justified.

Consequences of committing or attempting to commit genocide. That's turned a lot of people off.

Israel aren't defending themselves they are out for vengeance.

They've invaded Palestine and illegally occupied vast areas of land for decades.

I don't, for one minute, excuse Hamas and what they've done but Israel has attacked 6 different countries recently, two of them with no justification what so ever.

Maps: Israel has attacked six countries in the past 72 hours

In just three days, Israel has carried out strikes in Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Tunisia, Qatar and Yemen.

www.aljazeera.com

They've destroyed the fields and food growing areas of Gaza so that without aid Gazans will starve for years

More than 95 percent of Gaza’s agricultural land unusable, UN warns

Israeli attacks on land, wells and greenhouses exacerbating the already critical risk of famine in Gaza, the FAO says.

www.aljazeera.com

Just 1.5 per cent of Gaza’s agricultural land remains accessible and undamaged

UN data published on Wednesday underscores the tiny amount of cultivable land that remains in the Gaza Strip, contributing to the famine-like conditions now being endured by more than two million people there.

news.un.org

They treat any Palestinians, whether in Gaza or the West Bank appallingly and with no consequences.

This is an interesting description of Gaza's economy and how Israel has specifically targeted anything to support themselves

Economy of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is not a civilised country's way and they should, quite rightly, be held to account.

So excuse me if I don't have one iota of sympathy for them.

 

[dirty harry]

I think Israel are doing a pretty good job of that without any help.

Thats a bad take!

 

[Welsh Exile]

Consequences of committing or attempting to commit genocide. That's turned a lot of people off.

Wow. Doubling down on it.

I’m out. Have a nice rest of your night.

 

[AlRums]

Wow. Doubling down on it.

I'm out. Have a nice rest of your night.

You're out because you can't refute a thing.

 

[AlRums]

Thats a bad take!

You're irrelevant

 

[dirty harry]

Wow. Doubling down on it.

I'm out. Have a nice rest of your night.

Sensible, im not sure these views are worthy of a response.

 

[AlRums]

Sensible, im not sure these views are worthy of a response.

Facts

 

[Welsh Exile]

Sensible, im not sure these views are worthy of a response.

No, it’s best not to engage which I won’t be from now on. When people start saying that victims of racism deserve it as they bring it on themselves and can’t even see what they’re saying is abhorrent that’s when you know they’re too far gone.

Shame it comes from my side but it’s hardly surprising, seen it all before with the Corbyn lot. Anti semitism is also unique in that it comes from everywhere. We saw it recently in the USA thread from a telegram chat of young, American right wing leaders and you can go to a tiny rugby forum predominantly dominated by left wing people and see it as well.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Not excusing any anti-semitism here but I think Israel blurring the lines between anti-semitism and anti-zionism over the past two years has absolutely made people more confident to spread their racism or turned people more extreme.


Zionism and Judaism have also become very intertwined through the same rhetoric and propaganda.

There are Jews who don't support what has gone on in Gaza and the West Bank who are amongst the most brave people who speak out on the matter but from what I read and see it's seems to be a tiny minority. I'll admit that my viewpoint on this is primarily through what I read though, Ireland has a tiny Jewish community for a multitude of reasons from being a poor country until about 20 years ago, to the stranglehold the Catholic church had here throughout the 20th century (there was a pogrom in Limerick in this time too which is one of many stains on 20th century catholic Ireland).

It also sits poorly with me that Israel have one of the most openly racist societies on earth and are happy to push racist narratives against Islam saying its a violent religion etc... while accusing anyone and any nation who disagrees with them of anti-semitism. They're exceedingly happy to speak out both sides of their mouth.

To me it boils down to 1. Hamas being absolutely terrible and they need to be dealt with in some way, and 2. Isreal created this society through oppression where young men and boys who've had their basic human rights oppressed from day dot see radicalisation and taking up arms as their only way out.

You don't get to kill 10s of thousands of defenceless civilians to fix a problem.of your own creation.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

As usual it boils down to both sides are shits. Hamas are worse imo but Israel have a vastly greater ability to inflict harm and have done so.

I usually ask myself how would I think our nation would react if we had a neighbour doing what Israel or Hamas are doing. I firmly believe any reasonableness would fly out the window.

I think Israel with different neighbours could be a belligerent nation but could live peacefully. I don't believe the same of Hamas.

The closest comparison close to home is the British-Irish issues from the past, but neither side actually wanted the outright extermination of the other.

 

[General Melchett]

IMO the removal of Hamas is the first and most important step as part of a road to long term peace.

The second most important step is the removal of Netanyahu and the two monsters to his right otherwise this will be a forever war with their settlers (terrorists) continuing to try and make a two state solution untenable. Trouble will be guaranteed for the long haul as long as they're in power.

 

[Saintjay]

Like most i am really sceptical of regime change. I fully endorse getting rid of Hamas it's what follows later that's the concern. Iran and Afghanistan being perfect examples

Western influence over this hasn't exactly been great

 

[Welsh Exile]

I've said many times that being anti Zionist does not neccisarily make you an anti semite (though all anti semites are anti Zionist)

HOWEVER, when your hatred (key word) for Zionism is so irrational that you, for example, make comparisons between Gaza and Auschwitz, or to Hamas and Jews in the Second World War or the Israeli governments actions and the Nazis in general or indeed say Jews bring on anti semitism themselves then you are, more than likely, an anti semitic bigot.

If your hatred for a Zionist state (the right of Jews to have self determination in any part of their ancestral homeland) extends to "I want it gone" again, you're probably an anti semite. This obviously does not extend to criticism of the Israeli government. That is clearly perfectly fine as the majority of Israelis do that on a daily basis. There's a million things you can criticise the Israeli government on that doesn't involve making gross comparisons to the Holocaust.

It's pretty easy to be intellectually honest and not apply double standards. I've said before, if the IRA had said they won't stop killing Brits until every last one (not just in the UK but worldwide) were dead and their country seized to exist then went over to the UK killed about 10k civilians (relative to population size) raped a load of people, kidnapped a few hundred took them back to Dublin where they had built a underground network of tunnels as big as the London Underground and hid under there saying we're going to do it again and again then we would still be at war with them now and I dare say you would've seen thousands upon thousands of innocent Irish civilians die from the inevitable bombing campaign we would've unleashed.

At some point you have to say there is no justification for October 7th it was not inevitable and it was not Israel's fault. At some point you have to say "hey, guys, this isn't cool no matter what you think about the blockade on Gaza" It's nonsense and it's why, outside of ISIS no one can point to any resistance group in history that has acted like Hamas. Why? Because prior resistance groups were actually concerned with resisting their oppressors and liberating their people and not genociding a whole group of people and wiping out their country. Israel 100% needs new leadership but that's easy enough in a democracy (we should see it next year in Israel fingers crossed) but this apparent acceptance that October 7th was inevitable and Israel's fault is just wrong, intellectually, morally and historically and if you disagree why haven't any resistance group done what Hamas have done?

I will give them credit for consistency though. They don't distinguish between civilians and combatants because it's essential to their genocide narrative (look guys. Israel just woke up one day and targeted and killed 70 thousand Palestinians for no reason). But they also don't distinguish between civilian and combatant when they attack Israel. To Hamas a 3 day old baby is a Zionist settler and a combatant so props to them for being consistent.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

BBC News - BBC Gaza documentary a 'serious' breach of rules, Ofcom says

BBC Gaza documentary a 'serious' breach of rules, Ofcom says

The regulator says the documentary, broadcast earlier this year, was "materially misleading".

www.bbc.com

Pretty big oversight to have to documentary narrated by the son of a Hamas official...

 

[Saintjay]

BBC News - BBC Gaza documentary a 'serious' breach of rules, Ofcom says

BBC Gaza documentary a 'serious' breach of rules, Ofcom says

The regulator says the documentary, broadcast earlier this year, was "materially misleading".

www.bbc.com

Pretty big oversight to have to documentary narrated by the son of a Hamas official...

As unbiased as me doing a doc on Leicester .

In other news government unable to block Palestine Action ban appeal.

Big arguements over Maccabi Tel Aviv bans and Birmingham independent Mp's making some interesting comments.

Pretty telling if we can't keep fans safe, and others saying it's a local political decision

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I've said many times that being anti Zionist does not neccisarily make you an anti semite (though all anti semites are anti Zionist)

Not going to contend your post at all, I'm the other side of the same coin really but I reckon there are some top standing people who are both zionist and anti-semitic, they just hate Muslims more.

I've had enough conversations where I've just nodded and looked for the quickest way out to ever discount a uniquely hateful point of view!

 

[Welsh Exile]

BBC News - BBC Gaza documentary a 'serious' breach of rules, Ofcom says

BBC Gaza documentary a 'serious' breach of rules, Ofcom says

The regulator says the documentary, broadcast earlier this year, was "materially misleading".

www.bbc.com

Pretty big oversight to have to documentary narrated by the son of a Hamas official...

That's the tip of the iceberg. Alongside the constant genocide narratives you also have the UN declared mass famine claims as well. So in the last 2 years of genocide and mass famine you've had, according to Hamas, 70k dead and, from a Quick Look, about 400 of that 70k or so from those being of starvation.

Now, for me personally, if you asked me how many people would I expect to die in a densely populated area of 2 million people and asked me to guess how many people have died over a 2 year period of mass famine and genocide I'd probably guess somewhere in the region of 250k to 500k if not more. 70k (with anywhere between 15k and 30k of that being Hamas terrorists) doesn't sound like mass famine or genocide to me. For a bit of context Rwanda saw 1 million people killed in a 100 days. Yet you are treated as some kind of monster if you don't recognise the genocide and mass famine. I don't think people know the meaning of the words or have any idea how many people mass famines and genocides kill. Especially when one side is so much more powerful than the other.

I was listening to an Israeli Christian the other day who was machete attacked back in the day and the guys who did it have been released in the deal and she blames western media. I didn't 100% agree with everything she said but I could understand why she placed the blame largely at the feet of western media and governments.

 

[AlRums]

Ten-year-old Palestinian boy shot dead by Israeli forces in West Bank

Witnesses say Muhammad al-Hallaq had been playing football before soldiers arrived and opened fire.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[AlRums]

Trump’s peace plan is just about holding together, but may be unravelled by two unresolved issues | Rajan Menon

The withdrawal of Israeli troops and the establishment of an International Stabilisation force are key in securing long term peace, but the plan is dangerously vague on these issues, says professor of international relations Rajan Menon

www.theguardian.com

A very good opinion piece

 

[Amiga500]

for example, make comparisons between Gaza and Auschwitz

Question for the Welsh self-appointed thought police. Why does comparing the two require hatred?