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A Political Thread pt. 2

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clye9zn0y1ro

Amazed this article hasnt gone viral around the right wing circles, hits nearly every trope....

People smuggler jailed who earned 100k a week in a camp in France gets out and pops to the UK to seek asylum while dealing in black market goods out of a sweet and vape shop driving a new car without a license and bragging about how Muslims own the city and the police and MPs cant touch them!
 
A lot of stuff going round about the forced adoptions that occurred decades ago. It's absolutely astonishing, the state feeling emboldened enough to legally take parents children away. It's something you'd expect to see in a dictatorship and was a horrific strain on this country.
 
ChicagoKid said:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/2026/07/uk-productivity-economy-reform-party/687303/

Interesting article from the most prestigious left-of-center American magazine.
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It's an interesting read and we have definitely made bad decisions in this country. I think a key element as well is the culture in this country. We are risk adverse, want people to stay in their lane and generally quite conservative in the sense of not embracing brand new ways of thinking.

One thing that can be said about Americans is there is a much more "can do" attitude in the USA compared to Britain or Europe.

We are actually good innovators but we are **** poor at putting money behind it to make it commercially viable. For example space X has revolutionised space launching. The thing is in Britain we had plans for a space plane system allowing launches to space from regular airfields at a fraction of the energy usage. It was called Skylon and used a highly innovative engine called the sabre engine. It was a one of a kind combined jet and rocket engine. Result? British government refused to invest, British banks and capital refused to invest (even after they proved it worked) and now the whole thing is dead.

We threw away our big chance to lead the world in this, just as we did with cars, with planes, with the internet, with trains, with computing. We always refuse to fund this stuff and protect our innovations from hostile foreign takeovers.
 
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ChicagoKid said:
Dont you want multiple perspectives?
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Sorry, i jest. Depends what you mean by multiple perspectives?

If you mean in a Joe Rogan sense then no. But Ragey and Saintjay seem to have not taken much issue with it and I’m aware of The Atlantic who are pretty good so I would say the piece you posted is probably not rubbish. Still not read it.
 
Ragey Erasmus said:
A lot of stuff going round about the forced adoptions that occurred decades ago. It's absolutely astonishing, the state feeling emboldened enough to legally take parents children away. It's something
dirty harry said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clye9zn0y1ro

Amazed this article hasnt gone viral around the right wing circles, hits nearly every trope....

People smuggler jailed who earned 100k a week in a camp in France gets out and pops to the UK to seek asylum while dealing in black market goods out of a sweet and vape shop driving a new car without a license and bragging about how Muslims own the city and the police and MPs cant touch them!
Click to expand...

No interest in this story? Seriously?

It really is fascinating which political stories get traction on this thread...
Click to expand...
 
Welsh Exile said:
Well let’s hope the left don’t overreact, or do anything. Best to just ignore it.
Click to expand...

Definately not overreact, that will create the environment where it is discredited dont you think? We have seen this happen over and over and thenoutcome has proven over reacting, then lieing about things, exhagerating the issue that leads to comment like 'a Russian agent is about to be voted as leader of the UK' cannot help the lefts cause can it?
 
dirty harry said:
Definately not overreact, that will create the environment where it is discredited dont you think? We have seen this happen over and over and thenoutcome has proven over reacting, then lieing about things, exhagerating the issue that leads to comment like 'a Russian agent is about to be voted as leader of the UK' cannot help the lefts cause can it?
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It’s subjective isn’t it. It also depends on who is doing the reacting.
 
Welsh Exile said:
It’s subjective isn’t it. It also depends on who is doing the reacting.
Click to expand...

Well lets say i was anti Farage and you were a Farage fanboy for a second...

The conversation of the 5 million, and the crypto bro popped up, and your stance was that you werent sure, but felt it wasnt important, and my stance was that it is dodgy money and support that needs investigating, and that we would be negligent by not doing so thoroughly, there would be a productive conversation, and we would probably find some middle ground.

Now imagine your stance was that it wasnt important, and my stance is that your a racist Nazi for suggesting it, and that clearly Russian money is buying UK democracy and anyone who disagrees is amoronic gammon who cant read...

Would the 2nd scenario make you reconsider voting for Farage in a potential upcoming snap, or entrench your view that this is a hit job looking to stop Farage from running at all.
 
dirty harry said:
Well lets say i was anti Farage and you were a Farage fanboy for a second...

The conversation of the 5 million, and the crypto bro popped up, and your stance was that you werent sure, but felt it wasnt important, and my stance was that it is dodgy money and support that needs investigating, and that we would be negligent by not doing so thoroughly, there would be a productive conversation, and we would probably find some middle ground.

Now imagine your stance was that it wasnt important, and my stance is that your a racist Nazi for suggesting it, and that clearly Russian money is buying UK democracy and anyone who disagrees is amoronic gammon who cant read...

Would the 2nd scenario make you reconsider voting for Farage in a potential upcoming snap, or entrench your view that this is a hit job looking to stop Farage from running at all.
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You think Farage fan boys are open to conversations and having their mind changed? To be fair people in general are tribal and don’t change their mind too much.

To answer your question I would say firstly, these conversations between Dave and Keith in the pub are largely irrelevant compared to the actual serious conversations that are meant to take place at a political level. Secondly would be concerned with how accurate any statement is, regardless of how left field it was.
 
Welsh Exile said:
You think Farage fan boys are open to conversations and having their mind changed? To be fair people in general are tribal and don’t change their mind too much.

To answer your question I would say firstly, these conversations between Dave and Keith in the pub are largely irrelevant compared to the actual serious conversations that are meant to take place at a political level. Secondly would be concerned with how accurate any statement is, regardless of how left field it was.
Click to expand...

I agree kind of, i dont think people are as tribal as you think, Tories are dead Labour are on life support, Reform have surged and now are having to fight off Restore, thats a big swing in a decade. But i see your point, a Farage fanboy would be more loyal, but that loyalty doesnt leave by berating them.

Like youve just done, ignored the conversation and called Farage fanboys tribal and unwilling to change their minds, where we have examples to the contrary. Daryl Davis conversations with KKK members proved really effective (from what ive read).

I agree 2 guys chatting isnt the grand change we need, but its the start of culture change, 2 people chatting **** on the internet finding common ground and going over facts and evidence can show others hownits done.

As i said, demonising Farage and hos supporters, unfairly, and falsely will do nother yo move the conversation on, its like drug use... there has never been a drug user, in the history of the planet, ever who has stopped taking drugs because some person, or an organisation has villified them for it, its the same with politics, noone has ever changed their politics because the other side called them a name, the closest we have seen is people being afraid to show their politics, before voting the way they wanted anyway.

I prefer a harm reduction approach, behaviour change comes from a lot of comllex, dynamic and changing ideas, not from a door slamming in your face.
 
dirty harry said:
I agree kind of, i dont think people are as tribal as you think, Tories are dead Labour are on life support, Reform have surged and now are having to fight off Restore, thats a big swing in a decade. But i see your point, a Farage fanboy would be more loyal, but that loyalty doesnt leave by berating them.

Like youve just done, ignored the conversation and called Farage fanboys tribal and unwilling to change their minds, where we have examples to the contrary. Daryl Davis conversations with KKK members proved really effective (from what ive read).

I agree 2 guys chatting isnt the grand change we need, but its the start of culture change, 2 people chatting **** on the internet finding common ground and going over facts and evidence can show others hownits done.

As i said, demonising Farage and hos supporters, unfairly, and falsely will do nother yo move the conversation on, its like drug use... there has never been a drug user, in the history of the planet, ever who has stopped taking drugs because some person, or an organisation has villified them for it, its the same with politics, noone has ever changed their politics because the other side called them a name, the closest we have seen is people being afraid to show their politics, before voting the way they wanted anyway.

I prefer a harm reduction approach, behaviour change comes from a lot of comllex, dynamic and changing ideas, not from a door slamming in your face.
Click to expand...
Berating them? I think you mean berating humanity. I clearly said this is a very human trait.
 
“but that loyalty doesnt leave by berating them.

Like youve just done, ignored the conversation and called Farage fanboys tribal and unwilling to change their minds,”
 
I think what's currently happening is the real way to bring down the likes of Farage. He can possibly weather one scandal but multiple cases of undisclosed payments vastly eclipsing what any other MP gets, spending all his time in the states, constantly on GB News, essentially selling his image, it becomes exceeding difficult to portray himself as a man of the people. Eventually grinning with a pint in a pub just won't cut it.

How he has handled these cases hasn't been good either, his instant use of personal attacks is a bad look and makes it difficult for him to portray himself as the victim, especially as he can't even deny the allegations.

Some people won't care and will never care, his corruption could be laid bare and they'd still vote for him. There is absolutely no point trying to deal with these people because they really don't want to know. People who go to him because they think he gives them a voice and it's one of them, they may be put off by all this. It certainly damages him far more than being perceived as racist. The general rule is racist accusations just don't damage right wing people at all now except in really extreme cases because so few people on the right care about it any more. There is the wide perception that racism accusations have gone too far and it's become like the boy who cried wolf, they are numbed to it.

The left spend too long trying to discredit those on the right by using tactics they feel would discredit the left.
 

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