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Ellis Park, Johannesburg (16/06/2012, 16:00 GMT)
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Spring Tour: South Africa v England -2nd Test. (16/06/2012 15:00GMT)
- Thread starter Draggs
- Start date
Ellis Park, Johannesburg (16/06/2012, 16:00 GMT)
Right!
Let's get this going!
The Boks without Zane Kirchner and Coenie Oosthuizen for the series, but with that said, Gio Aplon and Dean Greyling coming in is not at all bad replacements.
A lot of news reports say that Lambie will get the fullback position with Aplon as 22. Giving us a more attacking backline setup in the second half
Man If Etzebeth was looking at me like that, I'd run for the Hills!!
Let's get this going!
The Boks without Zane Kirchner and Coenie Oosthuizen for the series, but with that said, Gio Aplon and Dean Greyling coming in is not at all bad replacements.
A lot of news reports say that Lambie will get the fullback position with Aplon as 22. Giving us a more attacking backline setup in the second half
Man If Etzebeth was looking at me like that, I'd run for the Hills!!
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He doesn't really look like the thinking type, or only then a few select thoughts
"Hmgpgh, kick ball, gmrrrr... run with ball, mmmgh pretty women, hmmhm oh **** im being tackled, is that man? hit man!"
"Hmgpgh, kick ball, gmrrrr... run with ball, mmmgh pretty women, hmmhm oh **** im being tackled, is that man? hit man!"
Zed
Bench Player
I just hope it's better than the first test. I thought this horrible 10 man rugby was left behind in the 90s..
I thought both teams ran the ball, the difference is England and south Africa actually have decent forwards to use rather than just relying on the backs like Australia do.
It was a very good game to watch and i hope for more like it!
It was a very good game to watch and i hope for more like it!
I also don't know what the Aussie is on about. This is a test match with test match intensity and both teams actually have a decent tight 5 and good set pieces. Get some appreciation for the variety in rugby.
With Aplon coming in on the bench with Lambie at 15 who would be M Steyn's direct replacement though or would they keep Olivier on the bench as centre cover with Ruan Pienaar covering 9 and 10 or Aplon coming on and Lambie shifting to 10. I suppose between Pienaar and Lambie.. and F Steyn we have the backline covered with utility. I like the fact that Greyling and Aplon give away nothing ITO quality in fact I'd say Lambie at 15 with Aplon on the bench actually is a definate improvement. Spies is the only one I'm still not too happy about. But I do have to admit he performed a tad better than i would have thought but I still feel we have better options.
The one thing I am hoping for for this game is accuracy and discipline; we gave away silly penalties and butchered a number of scoring opportunities in the first match. We won't win consistently if we don't get that sorted out. Other than that an increase in commitment to the breakdown and quicker ball is paramount and the two go hand-in-hand. I think Hougie needs to look at what Genia does with som of the **** ball he gets sometimes but that said we actually have the grunt upfront for Hougaard and Steyn to have a consistent supply of quick, front foot ball.
Looking forward to Etzebeth and Coetzee building on their debut performances. Kruger on the other hand took to test rugby amazingly well- in fact he actually played better than in some of the S15 matches IMO. Etzebeth and Coetzee (to a lesser extent) still have to replicate the impact that they have made in S15 rugby.
With Aplon coming in on the bench with Lambie at 15 who would be M Steyn's direct replacement though or would they keep Olivier on the bench as centre cover with Ruan Pienaar covering 9 and 10 or Aplon coming on and Lambie shifting to 10. I suppose between Pienaar and Lambie.. and F Steyn we have the backline covered with utility. I like the fact that Greyling and Aplon give away nothing ITO quality in fact I'd say Lambie at 15 with Aplon on the bench actually is a definate improvement. Spies is the only one I'm still not too happy about. But I do have to admit he performed a tad better than i would have thought but I still feel we have better options.
The one thing I am hoping for for this game is accuracy and discipline; we gave away silly penalties and butchered a number of scoring opportunities in the first match. We won't win consistently if we don't get that sorted out. Other than that an increase in commitment to the breakdown and quicker ball is paramount and the two go hand-in-hand. I think Hougie needs to look at what Genia does with som of the **** ball he gets sometimes but that said we actually have the grunt upfront for Hougaard and Steyn to have a consistent supply of quick, front foot ball.
Looking forward to Etzebeth and Coetzee building on their debut performances. Kruger on the other hand took to test rugby amazingly well- in fact he actually played better than in some of the S15 matches IMO. Etzebeth and Coetzee (to a lesser extent) still have to replicate the impact that they have made in S15 rugby.
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That first sentence alone, makes sense on it's own... He's a bloody Aussie!!
I agree with everything you said here. and I know (because I'm a big Heyneke Meyer fan) the discipline will come right. Apparently on Monday midway through training, Heyneke stopped the training session and read the guys the riot act as he felt that the training wasn't going as he'd hoped for.
Heyneke is a man of discipline and always strives for perfection, we've seen that time and time again. Don't worry, I know the fire in the guys will be there come Saturday!
He's also from Wigan, where the women are 10x scarier than anything you could come up against on a rugby pitch.
I am really looking forward to this one. Kirchner out is good. I know it sounds horrible to say this, but both Lambie and Aplon add more at 15 than him. We need a more versatile player. Ideal would be if Lambie moved to 10 with Aplon at 15, Morne on the bench. Sorry Heineken, but apart from his try, he didn't add anything useful to our backline last weekend. Yes, he distributed the ball, but that is what he is supposed to do! Let's not compliment him for doing the basics right, please. Well, part of the basics because missing 3 out of 7 from the kicking tee is just unacceptable in a Test match. And it's not something that just happened and is an incident, he has been poor all season. Things need to change. We won the first Test with the Bulls-style, now we had a week to prepare for the second Test. I hope HM will show some balls and improve on our gameplay.
That being said, there is no proper replacement for Spies in the squad. Daniel is a good open-side flanker but not Test-level, easy as that. Kankowski is off-form after breaking his hand and his inclusion doesn't make sense (even though I am the biggest Kanko fan in the world probably). It would have been better if Josh Strauss was called up. We need some strength combined with vision, not just brute force like Spies has. Vermeulen would be the ideal man but he's out injured. Spies didn't carry the ball alot, but he hit a ton of rucks and he was acting more like a lock than a loose forward. Having Coetzee and Alberts as runners makes the need for a rucking loosie imminent and I sincerely feel that it was a good idea of Heyneke Meyer to put Spies at the back of the scrum while we have 2 flankers who carry the ball. My biggest question is: Is Jacques Potgieter fit? If so, I would love to see Coetzee at the back of the scrum and Potgieter moving to openside.
On the other hand, I've been very, very impressed by our front-row. Especially Beast has stepped up after he broke his arm in January. Man, he is a true beast now. Bismarck looks more controlled and made less stupid mistakes than he did coming off the bench in the Bok jersey these last couple of years. I guess not having to prove himself anymore has something to do with that. He now has more than 40 minutes to show his skill in stead of making up for Smit's mistakes. Jannie is still a bit of a loose cannon, but the alternatives are just not up for it. Who should we put there? Maybe Cilliers, but he is not in the squad.
Second row was phenomenal. No Test rugby yet between Juandre Kruger and Eben Etzebeth, but it didn't show in their performance. Etzebeth was strong in every aspect and Hein's photo shows his commitment. I hope they can build on this. For me, the biggest worry is scrum-half. I remember in 2010 everybody blaming Ruan pienaar for not recycling the ball quick enough and Hougaard being the kid that sparked the backline with his quick play at the rucks. Now it's the other way round. Hougaard is taking forever to recycle the ball, which gives England the chance to get back to their line of defense while Pienaar showed he has grown in Europe, feeling more confident and passing the ball short and long at will... And quick too! I feel Hougaard can shine on the wing and give us that extra edge we need. JP Pietersen looks insecure and his time spend in the center-position didn't do his wing-capabilities any good. he did have the assisting pass to JdV for the second try, but besides that, he was invisible. Habana however, showed some skill, after being invisible for 3 years. He scored his last try against Italy in 2010 before breaking the record more than a year later, at the World Cup. Now, he is more a man leading up to the tries rather than flying coast-to-coast on the counter attack.
My preferred line-up for Saturday would be this:
1. Tendai Mtawarira
2. Bismarck du Plessis
3. Jannie du Plessis
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Juandre Kruger
6. Marcell Coetzee
7. Willem Alberts
8. Pierre Spies
9. Ruan Pienaar
10.Patrick Lambie
11.Bryan Habana
12.Francois Steyn
13.Jean de Villiers
14.Francois Hougaard
15.Gio Aplon
16.Adriaan Strauss
17.Werner Kruger
18.Flip van der Merwe
19.Jacques Potgieter
20.Morne Steyn
21.JP Pietersen
22.Bjorn Basson
That being said, there is no proper replacement for Spies in the squad. Daniel is a good open-side flanker but not Test-level, easy as that. Kankowski is off-form after breaking his hand and his inclusion doesn't make sense (even though I am the biggest Kanko fan in the world probably). It would have been better if Josh Strauss was called up. We need some strength combined with vision, not just brute force like Spies has. Vermeulen would be the ideal man but he's out injured. Spies didn't carry the ball alot, but he hit a ton of rucks and he was acting more like a lock than a loose forward. Having Coetzee and Alberts as runners makes the need for a rucking loosie imminent and I sincerely feel that it was a good idea of Heyneke Meyer to put Spies at the back of the scrum while we have 2 flankers who carry the ball. My biggest question is: Is Jacques Potgieter fit? If so, I would love to see Coetzee at the back of the scrum and Potgieter moving to openside.
On the other hand, I've been very, very impressed by our front-row. Especially Beast has stepped up after he broke his arm in January. Man, he is a true beast now. Bismarck looks more controlled and made less stupid mistakes than he did coming off the bench in the Bok jersey these last couple of years. I guess not having to prove himself anymore has something to do with that. He now has more than 40 minutes to show his skill in stead of making up for Smit's mistakes. Jannie is still a bit of a loose cannon, but the alternatives are just not up for it. Who should we put there? Maybe Cilliers, but he is not in the squad.
Second row was phenomenal. No Test rugby yet between Juandre Kruger and Eben Etzebeth, but it didn't show in their performance. Etzebeth was strong in every aspect and Hein's photo shows his commitment. I hope they can build on this. For me, the biggest worry is scrum-half. I remember in 2010 everybody blaming Ruan pienaar for not recycling the ball quick enough and Hougaard being the kid that sparked the backline with his quick play at the rucks. Now it's the other way round. Hougaard is taking forever to recycle the ball, which gives England the chance to get back to their line of defense while Pienaar showed he has grown in Europe, feeling more confident and passing the ball short and long at will... And quick too! I feel Hougaard can shine on the wing and give us that extra edge we need. JP Pietersen looks insecure and his time spend in the center-position didn't do his wing-capabilities any good. he did have the assisting pass to JdV for the second try, but besides that, he was invisible. Habana however, showed some skill, after being invisible for 3 years. He scored his last try against Italy in 2010 before breaking the record more than a year later, at the World Cup. Now, he is more a man leading up to the tries rather than flying coast-to-coast on the counter attack.
My preferred line-up for Saturday would be this:
1. Tendai Mtawarira
2. Bismarck du Plessis
3. Jannie du Plessis
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Juandre Kruger
6. Marcell Coetzee
7. Willem Alberts
8. Pierre Spies
9. Ruan Pienaar
10.Patrick Lambie
11.Bryan Habana
12.Francois Steyn
13.Jean de Villiers
14.Francois Hougaard
15.Gio Aplon
16.Adriaan Strauss
17.Werner Kruger
18.Flip van der Merwe
19.Jacques Potgieter
20.Morne Steyn
21.JP Pietersen
22.Bjorn Basson
I see what you mean...
Team announced:
South Africa:
15 Pat Lambie, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Jean de Villiers (captain), 12 Frans Steyn, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Morné Steyn, 9 Francois Hougaard, 8 Pierre Spies, 7 Willem Alberts, 6 Marcell Coetzee, 5 Juandré Kruger, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Beast Mtawarira
Substitutes: 16 Adriaan Strauss, 17 Werner Kruger , 18 Flip van der Merwe, 19 Keegan Daniel, 20 Ruan Pienaar, 21 Wynand Olivier, 22 Bjorn Basson
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Jonathan Kaplan really is an arse. (To find out what I am talking about, tune in to sky sports 1 for SA barbarians England and watch the arse in action)
Nice kick by Care and try by Wade mind.
Quality from both, Waldrom great too.
Have you noticed how their scrum half is literally a child?
Wilko's left boot
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Care's having a good game in general - looking really snappy around the fringes.
Carl Fearns is the most half-hearted 7 I've ever seen
He looks very young. I discounted Waldrom just on virtue of his stupid train celebration.
Kaplan is literally a C**t and one of the worst referees I have ever seen
How the hell was that a yellow for Hask.
