Greatest World XV Ever 'Past and Present'

[TRF_Olyy]

15 Cullen Guy had pace everything and could was one of the most dangerous counter attackers ever to have played the game.

Same could be said about Robinson, though.
I propose we smush the two together and have Jamian Cullinson at 15.

 

[Big Ewis]

In my opinion:

1_ Jason Leonard.
2_ Sean Fitzpatrick (Captain)
3_ Os Du Randt.
4_ Martin Jhonson.
5_ Jhon Eales.
6_ Michael Jones.
7_ Richie McCaw.
8_ Zinzan Brooke.
9_ Gareth Edwards.
10_ Hugo Porta.
11_ Jonah Lomu.
12_ Tana Umaga.
13_ Brian O'Driscoll.
14_ David Campese.
15_ Serge Blanco.

damn....could you imagine that backfield all playing at once ?!!

P.S.: totally agree with Habana over Shane Williams. I may personally prefer Wil, but Haban's ability to create out of absolutely nothing, and the (basically) certainty you've got when the ball's made it to that wing in his hands for a 5pter...then there's defensively of course, the problem with short wingers that Habana never had. And then, just simply, the speed. Habana's the fastest guy I've ever seen; besides that American black guy who somehow outran him on that try back in '07; his speed is laughable, Williams never got to those turbos...and for a winger...yep, sounds reductive but, speed is rather important...really important in fact.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

i think instead of "best team ever" we should have "best team out of players we've seen play the game" which , incidentally, seems to be what most people are posting. otherwise where is colin meads?

 

[Thingimubob]

damn....could you imagine that backfield all playing at once ?!!

P.S.: totally agree with Habana over Shane Williams. I may personally prefer Wil, but Haban's ability to create out of absolutely nothing, and the (basically) certainty you've got when the ball's made it to that wing in his hands for a 5pter...then there's defensively of course, the problem with short wingers that Habana never had.

I'd argue that Shane's ability to create out absolutely nothing with probably better than Habana's, can't count the number of matches where Shane dragged us kicking and screaming back into it by creating/scoring all the tries (Scotland and France in 2010 being perfect examples)! Sahne's defenisve ability was always underrated imo too, not saying he was the best around, and Habana almost certainly was a stronger in the tackle, but Shane's was damn solid in his later years.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Tana Umaga is just another flat ball Pieter Muller.
He had nothing on Tim Horan IMO.

Whilst Tim Horan was brilliant, Umaga was incredible. In the days when the fetcher reigned supreme Tana was outplaying the oppositions designated fetchers almost every game, only being beaten sometimes by mcaw and george smith. This wasn't even his job mind you, and nor did this aspect deter him from his real job. He was also an incredible defender, reading defense brilliantly and rarely missing tackles, amazing at organising his fellow defenders. and he was an amazing attacker; always taking the right lines, brilliant sidestep, brilliant offload, the best dummy runner in history, great distributor, a creator, always making the right decisions. heck, I'd even consider putting him in the team as a winger, but it was in the midfield where he reigned supreme. One of the smartest rugby players ever. A legend.

I'd argue that Shane's ability to create out absolutely nothing with probably better than Habana's, can't count the number of matches where Shane dragged us kicking and screaming back into it by creating/scoring all the tries (Scotland and France in 2010 being perfect examples)!

I'd agree. Habana was/is brilliant though, particularly with the boks gameplans. his defence is amazing, because of his chase game, his workrate, his reading (when to come out of the line, when to go for intercepts, predicting what will happen so he takes the optimal line in cover defence); and his attack good too because of reading and work rate. what's more he is FAST!

So a hard two to pick between.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Best team out of players I have seen:
1.Jason leonard
2.Keith Wood
3.Carl Hayman
4.Martin Johnson
5.Victor Matfield
6.Michael Jones
7.Richie Mcaw
8.Zinzan Brooke
9.Fourie Du Preez
10.Stephen Larkham
11.Jonah Lomu
12.Dan carter
13.Tana Umaga
14.Rupeni Caucaunibuca
15.Cullen

 

[LittleGuy]

In my opinion:

1_ Jason Leonard.
2_ Sean Fitzpatrick (Captain)
3_ Os Du Randt.
4_ Martin Jhonson.
5_ Jhon Eales.
6_ Michael Jones.
7_ Richie McCaw.
8_ Zinzan Brooke.
9_ Gareth Edwards.
10_ Hugo Porta.
11_ Jonah Lomu.
12_ Tana Umaga.
13_ Brian O'Driscoll.
14_ David Campese.
15_ Serge Blanco.

I'm glad someone said it......

Besides we all know the Greatest XV ever.

1. Andrea Lo Cicero
2. Ed Fairhurst clone
3. Ed Fairhurst clone
4. Ed Fairhurst clone
5. Ed Fairhurst clone
6. Ed Fairhurst clone
7. Ed Fairhurst clone
8. Ed Fairhurst clone
9. Ed Fairhurst
10. Ed Fairhurst clone
11. Ed Fairhurst clone
12. Ed Fairhurst clone
13. Ed Fairhurst clone
14. Ed Fairhurst clone
15. Ed Fairhurst clone

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Perfectly valid argument actually: In the amateur era Lomu was the biggest superstar to ever grace the game. These days everyone seems to have a bigger and faster winger in their ranks.

Umm what? Lomu was around 120kg when playing for the all blacks and in high school was recorded running the 100m at 10.8. he got quicker since then. last i heard he held the all black 40m sprint record (this isn't necessarily a fact, just something I heard).

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Full name Robert Fruean
Height 1.90 m (6 ft 3 in)
Weight 105 kg (16 st 7 lb)

Not a winger, but really reminded me of Lomu when I saw him in the ITM this season.
Lomu is/was a bit heavier, but is also a few inches taller

not nearly as fast, not nearly as big.

 

[Zed]

Umm what? Lomu was around 120kg when playing for the all blacks and in high school was recorded running the 100m at 10.8. he got quicker since then. last i heard he held the all black 40m sprint record (this isn't necessarily a fact, just something I heard).

Not sure if he was ever 10.8 quick i.e he was probably handtimed instead of electronically timed, hence the reason you get all these whacky times quoted for fast rugby players. i.e Habana running sun 10.5 or something. But Lomu would still have a huge impact if he was playing rugby now and in the prime of his life. There aren't many (any?) guys around now that are 6'5, 120kg and can run as quick as he could and be as powerful as he was.

 

[Zed]

1.Os Du Rant
2.Keith Wood
3.Carl Hayman
4.Martin Johnson
5.John Eales
6.Michael Jones
7.Richie Mccaw
8.Zinzan Brooke
9.George Gregan
10.Dan Carter
11.Jonah Lomu
12.Tim Horan
13.BOD
14.Jason Robinson
15. Christian Cullen

 

[Umaga's Witness]

For me, out of players i have seen, when at their best, these are the ones that have to be there:

Wood, Hayman, Johnson, Mcaw, Umaga, Cullen, Du Preez.

 

[Zed]

For me, out of players i have seen, when at their best, these are the ones that have to be there:

Wood, Hayman, Johnson, Mcaw, Umaga, Cullen.

Yeah I went for Horan over Umaga, close call. It's hard comparing players from different eras, especially amateur vs professional.

 

[nickdnz]

Whilst Tim Horan was brilliant, Umaga was incredible. In the days when the fetcher reigned supreme Tana was outplaying the oppositions designated fetchers almost every game, only being beaten sometimes by mcaw and george smith. This wasn't even his job mind you, and nor did this aspect deter him from his real job. He was also an incredible defender, reading defense brilliantly and rarely missing tackles, amazing at organising his fellow defenders. and he was an amazing attacker; always taking the right lines, brilliant sidestep, brilliant offload, the best dummy runner in history, great distributor, a creator, always making the right decisions. heck, I'd even consider putting him in the team as a winger, but it was in the midfield where he reigned supreme. One of the smartest rugby players ever. A legend.

I agree. There was only one area where Umaga wasn't amazing, and that's kicking (though he could grubber very well). Other than that he is the most complete player I've ever seen play. I even prefer him as a captain to Richie McCaw. His tackling was both accurate and ferocious. His work on the ground for a centre was better than any centre I've seen (and I include both BOD and Conrad Smith in there). He not only offloaded better than anyone else at the time - but some of his long passes were spectacular (see his pass to Sivivatu vs the Lions). He ran great lines and very hard, the only centre who is similar in this regard was Mortlock. He had the pace of a winger, and the vision to set players into space from his breaks. Great leader. I personally would take him over Tim Horan - or BOD - although all three are great players.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

I agree. There was only one area where Umaga wasn't amazing, and that's kicking (though he could grubber very well). Other than that he is the most complete player I've ever seen play. I even prefer him as a captain to Richie McCaw. His tackling was both accurate and ferocious. His work on the ground for a centre was better than any centre I've seen (and I include both BOD and Conrad Smith in there). He not only offloaded better than anyone else at the time - but some of his long passes were spectacular (see his pass to Sivivatu vs the Lions). He ran great lines and very hard, the only centre who is similar in this regard was Mortlock. He had the pace of a winger, and the vision to set players into space from his breaks. Great leader. I personally would take him over Tim Horan - or BOD - although all three are great players.

Finally, someone understands! lol. You should join my religion - Umaga's Witnesses.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Umm what? Lomu was around 120kg when playing for the all blacks and in high school was recorded running the 100m at 10.8. he got quicker since then. last i heard he held the all black 40m sprint record (this isn't necessarily a fact, just something I heard).

There's no doubt in my mind that he wouldn't be as effective today. Just look at the back lines he'd be facing when attacking a defense. As opposed to running over a little Mike Catt, he'd be coming up against midfields with guys the size of Jamie Roberts, Manu Tualagi, Jonathan Davies, Mathieu Bastareaud and so on. Even smaller guys like Gordon D'arcy are far more bulky and better tackers than the backs that Lomu would have been playing afainst in the mid to late 90's. With the increase in strength and conditioning, as well as the huge increase in tackle technique and defensive organization, a guy whose game was primarily built around natural strength and pace wouldn't be as effective, as the guys with fewer natural gifts in that area now work 9 to 5 to compensate. He still would have been top class, but I doubt that if he played today he'd approach the same legendary status on the wing.

My bet would be that if he were to play no he'd be a 6, and probably the best out there.

 

[Hulk Hogan]

1. Al Baxter
2. Jeremy Paul
3. Matt Dunning
4. John Eales
5. Brad Thorn
6. Jerry Collins
7. George Smith
8. Sugar Ray Leonard

9. Will Genia
10. Quade Cooper
11. Digby Ioane
12. Roy Jones Jr
13. Digby Ioane
14. Digby Ioane
15. Mike Tyson

 

[nickdnz]

There's no doubt in my mind that he wouldn't be as effective today. Just look at the back lines he'd be facing when attacking a defense. As opposed to running over a little Mike Catt, he'd be coming up against midfields with guys the size of Jamie Roberts, Manu Tualagi, Jonathan Davies, Mathieu Bastareaud and so on. Even smaller guys like Gordon D'arcy are far more bulky and better tackers than the backs that Lomu would have been playing afainst in the mid to late 90's. With the increase in strength and conditioning, as well as the huge increase in tackle technique and defensive organization, a guy whose game was primarily built around natural strength and pace wouldn't be as effective, as the guys with fewer natural gifts in that area now work 9 to 5 to compensate. He still would have been top class, but I doubt that if he played today he'd approach the same legendary status on the wing.

My bet would be that if he were to play no he'd be a 6, and probably the best out there.

He's be too lazy for a no.6. He started off as a looseforward - but his conditioning was never really good enough (partly because of his kidney disease).

While it's impossible to know how good he'd be now - I still think he'd be considered the best attacking left wing the the world. The guys who he used to bump weren't all Mike Catt's. They were Phil Vickery's and Os du Randt's as well. No doubt he wouldn't be AS devistating as yes, defenses have improved as have the size of players - but I still think he'd be phenominal - and the preference of large outside backs who still don't physically hit the same levels as Lomu is really a testomony to how effective big and fast outside backs can still be.

 

[Feicarsinn]

He's be too lazy for a no.6. He started off as a looseforward - but his conditioning was never really good enough (partly because of his kidney disease).

While it's impossible to know how good he'd be now - I still think he'd be considered the best attacking left wing the the world. The guys who he used to bump weren't all Mike Catt's. They were Phil Vickery's and Os du Randt's as well. No doubt he wouldn't be AS devistating as yes, defenses have improved as have the size of players - but I still think he'd be phenominal - and the preference of large outside backs who still don't physically hit the same levels as Lomu is really a testomony to how effective big and fast outside backs can still be.

I agree with most of that. I didn't really see enough of him to judge whether he was that lazy so I wont argue on that. There is another factor that I forgot to bring up that's relevant too, and that's the amount of effort that goes into defensive organization and game analysis these days. There's no doubt (at least in my mind) that that would have had a negative effect on his impact. as a case in point, one need only look at the course of George North's career thus far. He was far more devastating when he first broke onto the scene, as no one knew much about him, but when defensive coaches and analyzers became aware and adjusted he had less impact.

I must stress that I'm not saying North is anywhere near the player Lomu is/was/would have been/whatever, nor am I saying he wouldn't have been awesome. It's one thing adapting to North when he's got the Welsh back line playing around him (which offers less threats than the AB's) and Lomu surrounded by Umanga, Cullen, etc. I just think he'd a Rokocoko or a Howlett, as a opposed to what he was. Oh, and obviously that's still awesome.

 

[Big Ewis]

I'm glad someone said it......

...and likely, the only Argentinian on the forum !!

There's no doubt in my mind that he wouldn't be as effective today. Just look at the back lines he'd be facing when attacking a defense. As opposed to running over a little Mike Catt, he'd be coming up against midfields with guys the size of Jamie Roberts, Manu Tualagi, Jonathan Davies, Mathieu Bastareaud and so on.

on one hand some ppl would say he was invincible and a God and could dominate the same way in every era, and then others who'd say he couldn't gain 10m for a match...obviously, being 120kgs but far more importantly the inherent strength he had (i.e. natural strength, sheer physical power no 120kg player has) would be a handful, to say the very least, for any era, goes without saying. Whether guys are bigger now, more powerful, more toned etc...nobody doubts either. But it's clear given what he could do during the 90's (just yesterday...) that he would still have those moments where he just fends off and sends flying defenders and takes on an entire squad for the score. 100% certain. It's very obvious his physical power is freakish, he's just one of those forces of nature that rise from mythological realms into ours every so often in sports...
As the rest is bulkier now, so would he have just a bit more difficulty being a complete monster. But again, it's not so long ago (he's not a player from the 60's ffs !) that he would walk into an English prop and have him take a seat during a RWC match...as just one tiny, little example.