[2015 RWC] Pool A: England vs. Fiji (18/09/2015)

[Kiwi_]

The hatred on social media is unbelievable.

From who?

 

[AzaMatt]

good game to watch for an opener!. are you guys more worried about the breakdown now though? fiji didnt really seem to know what to do after they stole the ball, get the feeling if a better side did this they would tear up the field. cant wait for the rest of the weekend. kicking myself for picking Liam williams as my fantasy full back instead of mike brown now (he was on the bench for me for this round). -_-

 

[TommiG88]

From who?

I follow rugby World Cup on Facebook, I clicked on comments and the top rated is us being arrogant, ignorant and the like.

From anyone around the world basically, all the uneducated people basically. Social media gives the minority a voice.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Bit early in the day to call him World Class.

No it's not, not if you know anything about back play.
Have a look at his defence, have a look at the supporting lines he runs, have a look at where his head is turning when the ball is nowhere near him, he's always gauging the situation, the light is on.
Compare him to Barritt, where the light doesn't come on unless its a defensive situation.
Burgess is a kid but he's got it upstairs and he has the physicality to trouble any defence. He sparks his team mates too, Joseph came alight when he hit the park.
Barritt is on the way out if England want to win the RWC.

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I follow rugby World Cup on Facebook, I clicked on comments and the top rated is us being arrogant, ignorant and the like.

From anyone around the world basically, all the uneducated people basically. Social media gives the minority a voice.

Tommi, there is no doubt that a % of Poms still think they have an Empire, fortunately most of them support soccer/football, holiday on the Costa del crime sporting their union jack tattoos and matching beach towels as a shield against open minded cultural awareness.
They don't tend to show up in large numbers in the rugby world, where we can expect a better quality of Pom.

 

[Wendigo7]

And yet Jones we still receive the same abuse no matter what sport it is.

I was using PR and one poster wanted to see Mike Brown suffer a second concussion.

Not many englishman were idiots last night, all I saw was vitriol sent our way and the only ones at this point who have a chip on their shoulders is everyone else and it's pretty much unavoidable.

 

[TommiG88]

I understand jones that there ignorant, self obsessed, uneducated fools in every country.

I just rarely see it in my field of work or my circle of friends. It's a shame really, people brought up to hate others etc

 

[Mcfadden]

You should have seen the comments between India and Australia during the Cricket World Cup. I'd ignore social media. People behave like racist animals on there.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Wendigo and Tommi, cheer up chaps, there are idiots the world over, just take a look at any parliament O_O
But here we are with a couple of lovely Poms like yourselves in our little haven of rugby benevolence so lets keep the muck out and enjoy ourselves.
Don't get involved in Hatebook or Sh-itter, it's full of the great unwashed.
Regarding some of the decisions in the first half last night, I thought Fiji were very hard done by to see a legal English try upgraded to a penalty try and THEN cop a yellow card for it as well.
That was a truly awful piece of adjudicating by the ref.
No TMO required.
That lost Fiji the game right there.
Bang!
Dead.
12 unanswered points while their man was off the field for something or nothing that he should ever have been sent for...
That decision ruined the game for me on a variety of levels, and yet none of them were the fault of the English players, the English management, the English media et al.
That was the fault of a human being who decided to get super heavy with his authority.

 

[Mcfadden]

Isn't it in the rules that if you prevent a try being scored then it must be ruled a penalty try and a yellow? If it's deemed a sure thing then you can't seperate the two. People say it's harsh. It's not though. That's the rules I'm fairly sure.

 

[Wendigo7]

I can't really see the truck and trailer argument as such, then again Matawalu was VERY dumb to run round the back of that maul and pull the carrier away.

Thought England controlled the game quite well for the most part under enormous pressure. The first hit out, especially for England at home, or NZ/SA, is nerve racking. Thought we struggled with the spoiling Fiji did at the set piece but I don't think they offered much and when we did start to do things properly, punch holes correctly and suck players in, we looked very dangerous, but the shuffling of ball wide for the sake of it was infuriating and made Fijis job alot easier.

Good game for England. Dealt with the pressure, things to work on, damped expectations that we were blistering, I'll take that and can have an 8 day rest watching everyone hit hell's bells out of each other.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Isn't it in the rules that if you prevent a try being scored then it must be ruled a penalty try and a yellow? If it's deemed a sure thing then you can't seperate the two. People say it's harsh. It's not though. That's the rules I'm fairly sure.

But... Matawalu didn't stop a perfectly good try from being scored in a very kickable position.
The players scored their try nd it was taken away from the scorer and made into a penalty try.
What was the point in upgrading it to a penalty try when the try was scored?
What was the point in yellow carding a player for an offence that clearly didn't stop the try from being scored? He didn't engage in foul play.
It was an absolutely appalling decision.
It ruined the contest.

 

[Wendigo7]

Also for those moaning about Matawalu, May had the same thing 2 weeks before, but George was in his run up to take the kick and that was even later so there is form for this recently.

It might be Veldsman as well, he was **** hot on just about everything 2 weeks ago against England and today it worked for us largely. Might just be him in particular as a TMO, we shall see.

 

[TommiG88]

But... Matawalu didn't stop a perfectly good try from being scored in a very kickable position.
The players scored their try nd it was taken away from the scorer and made into a penalty try.
What was the point in upgrading it to a penalty try when the try was scored?
What was the point in yellow carding a player for an offence that clearly didn't stop the try from being scored? He didn't engage in foul play.
It was an absolutely appalling decision.
It ruined the contest.

I agree and disagree to a degree. I don't think it changed the outcome of the game.

I was surprised for the penalty try as we were heading over the White wash as it was.

 

[The Jones Boy]

It might be Veldsman as well, he was **** hot on just about everything 2 weeks ago against England and today it worked for us largely. Might just be him in particular as a TMO, we shall see.

Thats true, two shockers in two games, lets see what he's like in his next outing.

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I agree and disagree to a degree. I don't think it changed the outcome of the game.

I was surprised for the penalty try as we were heading over the White wash as it was.

As a neutral, seeing Fiji lose a player at that stage when the try was already scored, then shipping 12 points before they got their man back, against a strong home team who are clearly tier 1 while Fiji are tier 2, it was a no brainer, they were never coming back into the contest , and they never did.
Game over in the first quarter.
Yawwwwn.

 

[Wendigo7]

Thats true, two shockers in two games, lets see what he's like in his next outing.

Not shockers because he got every single call right and fair play to him.

I would just like us to not be all NRL about it and every single call is TMO. Make the call and use the TMO sparcely, or there is a use system of 3 calls per game maybe, but don't let it clog up the game.

 

[Tony Manx]

I agree and disagree to a degree. I don't think it changed the outcome of the game.

I was surprised for the penalty try as we were heading over the White wash as it was.

"Heading over the whitewash" but was the ball touched down? I have no idea as no replays shown so maybe Peyper saw that it was held up?

Have to agree that it is yellow and a penalty try if a player commits a foul which stops what would have been a certain try!

One could argue that if the ball had been touched down that the penalty try should not have been awarded as it did not stop a try being scored!! No penalty try: no yellow card!!

 

[ncurd]

I've not seen anything to suggest the ball was not grounded and get the feeling Peyper was making up for not awarding what he felt was a yellow a few moments beforehand. It was probably the worst decisions of the match although I think the tip tackle and Parling's offsense might have deserved YC's as well.

Apart from that though the right decisions were made most of the time although the TMO did have to point out a few infractions (the tip tackle was probably the worst I have no idea how Peyper didn't see that in real-time and played on).

 

[Cookies]

Anyone else notice Peyper blatantly ignore that knock-on at the 80 minute mark? It was to allow England as much chance as possible at the bonus point. Happens every world cup, home ground advantage etc.

 

[TommiG88]

Thats true, two shockers in two games, lets see what he's like in his next outing.

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As a neutral, seeing Fiji lose a player at that stage when the try was already scored, then shipping 12 points before they got their man back, against a strong home team who are clearly tier 1 while Fiji are tier 2, it was a no brainer, they were never coming back into the contest , and they never did.
Game over in the first quarter.
Yawwwwn.

They only shipped 5 points? The try from the appalling lineout which the conversion was missed.

 

[Wendigo7]

Anyone else notice Peyper blatantly ignore that knock-on at the 80 minute mark? It was to allow England as much chance as possible at the bonus point. Happens every world cup, home ground advantage etc.

Jesus. Se what I mean.

I think Peyper made the comment he didn't think it went forward.

 

[TommiG88]

Anyone else notice Peyper blatantly ignore that knock-on at the 80 minute mark? It was to allow England as much chance as possible at the bonus point. Happens every world cup, home ground advantage etc.

To be honest he missed a few knock ons to either side during the game.

 

[Cookies]

Jesus. Se what I mean.

I think Peyper made the comment he didn't think it went forward.

Heh, fair enough. But that's only if we're also to believe he thinks storks deliver babies and cats and dogs really do come down in heavy rain.

He saw it. He knew it was forward.

 

[ncurd]

Anyone else notice Peyper blatantly ignore that knock-on at the 80 minute mark? It was to allow England as much chance as possible at the bonus point. Happens every world cup, home ground advantage etc.

Can you point it out to me exact time? I just watched the entire passage of play up to that try again and couldn't see a knock-on, there's one point where a player looses it backwards in tackle. However it looks fine in real-time so no reason for Peyper to be "ignoring it".

 

[Cookies]

Can you point it out to me exact time? I just watched the entire passage of play up to that try again and couldn't see a knock-on, there's one point where a player looses it backwards in tackle. However it looks fine in real-time so no reason for Peyper to be "ignoring it".

If I see a replay for sure Replay is coming up next too.

 

[Deleted member 53362]

Peyper missed loads and seemed to be completly reliant on the TMO to pick things up, which the TMO did with much gusto almost to a point of ruining the game.

 

[Tony Manx]

Heh, fair enough. But that's only if we're also to believe he thinks storks deliver babies and cats and dogs really do come down in heavy rain.

He saw it. He knew it was forward.

Perhaps he can now ask the TMO to review it???

The idea he did ignore it, especially if it was to help England, is laughable and typical of the anti ref remarks so often made on here!!

 

[Yoshimitsu]

With time to reflect I don't think it's any better than I did last night

I'm a tad hangover and I will admit to being a glass half full England supporter. I'd love us to do well, but I struggle to paper over the cracks as some of our media and amazingly our coaching staff appear to be able to do.

I fear we fundamentally don't understand the game, game plan or how to execute some pretty basic skills. Some things appear to be getting worse.

Set piece

It appears that the days of easy (or any) scrum dominance have gone. Especially for this England 8. Fiji had at least parity and at times alarming looked like they had the nudge. Marler I thought looked to be struggling (and has on more than one occassion)? Cole? Is he the player he was pre-injury? I suspect we're just not as good as we'd like to be or actually need to be. The lineout was better and looked functional and when we did turn lineout into maul that looked tidy. Probably the most positive play we had. Morgan looked like a man that hasn't played much in the last year..... funny that.

The breakdown has all the hallmarks of a union skill being coached by someone with a league background. Keeping the ball alive whilst maximising numbers in both attack and defence seems to be the main aim. Laudable as an aim maybe but This gives virtually no chance of offensive turnovers and on our own ball we're easy to disrupt and turn over. The sight of Wrigglesworth trying to rescue the ball whilst three Fijians wandered through unmolested was frankly embarrassing. 9's at club level get better protection that that. Better teams will kill us in this area and I don't believe there's time or the inclination to make any significant changes. I don't understand what we are trying to do? Watching teams attack us is like watching the tide come in. There's no attempt to make the big tackle or to win the ball when it's on the floor. That being the case good simple execution is enough to make good ground against us. Please for god's sake stop trying to get Lawes to carry anything other than widish. In the tight spaces he lacks grunt and his body position is poor.

Back play generally. I have enormous respect for wholehearted nutcases like a certain Mr Barritt but Jesus Christ he brings absolutely nothing apart from defence. Yes, that is important but it castrates the rest of the line as teams simply don't have to bother about the 12 channel at all. He doesn't carry any running threat and doesn't have the skills to release others. Very easy to then drift onto JJ who is class but can't always beat the 3 he needs to given that no one has been held. Burgess isn't the answer either. He's a functional 6 and obviously quite a guy. International starting 12? Nope, not yet, maybe never. We had a more than functional 12 and Lancaster binned him for some reason. That reason is Barritt's ability to tackle himself into the ground. Wrongheaded in my view. Our back play was schoolboy. Shift laterally until tackled, then repeat. it took Launchbury, Vunipola and Burgess to understand that going forwards is probably a good idea at some point. It's not like Fijiians did anything particularly clever they just organised and England as usual failed to adapt. A bit more positional pressure surely would have brought reward?

Back 3 - Big promise here for me. Watson has something about him I reckon and may be a very very good player. Even when he got outjumped for that Fijiian try his positining was O.K and he put up a decent contest. Sometimes you will get beat in that way but it's a hard skill to execute to that precision. Jonny May is well Jonny May. If we get him away, he's going to score and sometimes he'll manage to get himself away. On other occasions he'll run his fast slight frame into somewhere it shouldn't be and where he will get turned over. Also not convinced about his propensity to jump into tackles. I suspect someone may call him on it at some point. Mike Brown. Sometimes I doubt the guy and then he plays like he did last night. He's pretty bloody good at what he does and when he's like he was last night he affects the play of other which is what you want. He hasn't got electric pace but he does appear to have a diesel engine. He carries massive power and uses it effectively.

If you are going to try and use your fitness to win games you need to explain to your pack that's the plan. ******* about not getting the ball out of scrums and stuff allows teams to recover. Fiji looked to be struggling for maybe the last 7 minutes. It's a brave man that constructs a plan to win it then.

Overall the most pleasing thing was the result. But on that performance we could lose to both Australia and Wales.

 

[Cookies]

Perhaps he can now ask the TMO to review it???

The idea he did ignore it, especially if it was to help England, is laughable and typical of the anti ref remarks so often made on here!!

But he did... he was right in front of it. He saw it. Everyone saw it.

I don't actually care. I wanted England to win. But you'd be a fool to think there isn't a directive to have host nations start these world cups in the best possible manner. There's a lot of money involved. It's happened every world cup so far.

 

[LiRFCMatt]

There has been a lot of debate on Rugby Banter Page about singing over the top of the Cibi and other war dances in general.

Many are saying it is a lack of respect and should be treated like a national anthem.

I disagree.

They already have a national anthem, which we give the upmost respect to, and then sing to accept the challenge. Some will say it is a challenge to the team and not to the fans but when you're at home, home advantage is all about having the fans as part of your team. What do you guys think about it?

 

[TommiG88]

Our game plan was poor until the 65/70 min. We should have been trucking it up from the beginning, sometimes I do not understand our approach to games.

I will watch the highlights in a bit.