I also disagree. Just position the microphones right and the dance will be fine. I actually think that's one of the best parts of Union, the 'war dances' and singing. The whole stadium singing Swing Low, Sweet Chariot, for example, is always phenomenal.
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[2015 RWC] Pool A: England vs. Fiji (18/09/2015)
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I also disagree. Just position the microphones right and the dance will be fine. I actually think that's one of the best parts of Union, the 'war dances' and singing. The whole stadium singing Swing Low, Sweet Chariot, for example, is always phenomenal.
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It's boring, for the last few years the home crowd has sung across the war tribal dances.
I know wales sing whatever it is they sing over the haka like England sing swing low. The World Cup has brought the game to people's attention who have no interest in the game. They just want to be a keyboard warrior.
Yoshimitsu
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I concur. Personally I like to see and hear the challenge being laid down. The crowd deciding to drown it out just seems a bit boorish. However, this in itself was partly a reaction to certain practicioners getting very precious about what constituted the correct degree of "respect" for their particular pre-match ritual. Personally i preferred the good old days of players on the pitch deciding what to do. The Cocker's face off, the Irish march up or even the Campese just ignore it. Everything is so bloody scripted now it ****** me off.
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Does anyone actually get offended by the singing during war dances or is it just the media trying to stir things up? Can't speak for other countries but as a NZer I love it and the players do too. Nothing better the atmosphere it all creates.
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Edit: easily offended people.
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Would rather we sang Jerusalem than swing low but still.
79:56.
brokenoses
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I thought that the crowd singing during the dance was brilliant and really increased the atmosphere and tension in the pre match build up. The overlapping harmonies of swing low I think serve as a rousing alternative to the Pacific nations war dances, and I, along with most others I would presume, would not consider it disrespectful to acknowledge a challenge and offer your own. I would say that the team (Fiji in this case) should be mic'd up enough to compete with the 80,000 odd people with neither side drowning the other out. It really adds to the intensity and excitement of the occasion.
In terms of the match, I know from an England perspective a lot of it was frustrating to watch. England players standing and watching their 9 stand behind a ruck barely protected and seeming quite content to let Fiji clear out with impunity and get the turnover. It almost seemed like a deliberate tactic at times... Line speed seemed to be lacking which I can almost understand due to Fiji's ability to smash through the smallest of gaps in a defensive line, there were one or two hospital passes from England (I think Anthony Watson copped at least one...) and a lack of desire to truck it up and use physicality to break the gain line, something that could be argued as traditionally one of England's strengths.
At the end of the day though, Fiji were a potential spanner in the works and still are to Australia and Wales. England managed to overcome them and a 5 point win and a boot up the behind from coaches is about the best scenario they could have in my opinion. Its all well and good to say 'if England played like that against so and so then they would get hammered...' but there are so many variables going into a match that im sure its a rare occasion where a team plays 2 consecutive matches in the same way. England will go into the Wales game with optimism and points to prove.
In terms of the match, I know from an England perspective a lot of it was frustrating to watch. England players standing and watching their 9 stand behind a ruck barely protected and seeming quite content to let Fiji clear out with impunity and get the turnover. It almost seemed like a deliberate tactic at times... Line speed seemed to be lacking which I can almost understand due to Fiji's ability to smash through the smallest of gaps in a defensive line, there were one or two hospital passes from England (I think Anthony Watson copped at least one...) and a lack of desire to truck it up and use physicality to break the gain line, something that could be argued as traditionally one of England's strengths.
At the end of the day though, Fiji were a potential spanner in the works and still are to Australia and Wales. England managed to overcome them and a 5 point win and a boot up the behind from coaches is about the best scenario they could have in my opinion. Its all well and good to say 'if England played like that against so and so then they would get hammered...' but there are so many variables going into a match that im sure its a rare occasion where a team plays 2 consecutive matches in the same way. England will go into the Wales game with optimism and points to prove.
LiRFCMatt
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Overall, I'm pretty happy with how it went. A lot of people said there was potential to slip-up and we avoided it whilst securing a bonus point win. This Fijian side is the best in the country's history so at the end of the day it was a great result. We predicted a 25 point win here: http://fourballsblog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/rugby-world-cup-2015-fiji-vs-england.html, so for it to be 24 points I'm pretty delighted.
Some people thought the English thought we were going to trounce them, I don't know any Englishman that thought that would be the case, we all sort of went 25-30 point victory and that was pretty much what happened.
A good, strong start with some big matches ahead, it will be interesting to see how the Aussies handle the Fijians up next, with the Fijians having had that tough opening game. Either they will feel drained or motivated, we shall see.
Some people thought the English thought we were going to trounce them, I don't know any Englishman that thought that would be the case, we all sort of went 25-30 point victory and that was pretty much what happened.
A good, strong start with some big matches ahead, it will be interesting to see how the Aussies handle the Fijians up next, with the Fijians having had that tough opening game. Either they will feel drained or motivated, we shall see.
Yoshimitsu, I would agree with all your points.
I am trying to be a bit more positive about England than I have been though, so I would rather point out what an achievement it is to get a bonus point against Fiji without 1.) a stable scrum; 2.) a breakdown threat; and 3.) a threat at 12.
As for glass half full or not, I think this describes the England team perfectly at the moment...
We have a hooker who is great around the park, but who isn´t accurate enough at the lineout at this level, and possibly not good enough in the scrum either.
Because of this, we have to play Parling instead of Launchbury, which improves our lineout but gets rid of one of our only breakdown threats.
We have a scrum half who makes brilliant decisions and suberb breaks, but has not mastered the basics of scrum half play: passing from the base and kicking accurately under pressure.
We have a inside centre who is brilliant defensively, but offers very little in attack.
I am trying to be a bit more positive about England than I have been though, so I would rather point out what an achievement it is to get a bonus point against Fiji without 1.) a stable scrum; 2.) a breakdown threat; and 3.) a threat at 12.
As for glass half full or not, I think this describes the England team perfectly at the moment...
We have a hooker who is great around the park, but who isn´t accurate enough at the lineout at this level, and possibly not good enough in the scrum either.
Because of this, we have to play Parling instead of Launchbury, which improves our lineout but gets rid of one of our only breakdown threats.
We have a scrum half who makes brilliant decisions and suberb breaks, but has not mastered the basics of scrum half play: passing from the base and kicking accurately under pressure.
We have a inside centre who is brilliant defensively, but offers very little in attack.
The media mainly, we have a bit of a thing in Britain were we have to openly look for people possibly being offended by someone (normally Jeremy Clarkson) and when possible offence is found then everyone gets on their high horse about it. The fact that the people who we believe are offended couldnt give a toss is irrelevent. Someones been offended! and now we must all put up with the ensuing witch hunt.
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I'm not so knowledgable about the scrum. However can the no.8 bind between the flanker and lock?
Depends on the move they are planning as long they are bound on the back of the scrum its fine.
LiRFCMatt
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Some of the feeding at scrum time was terrible, I thought we were meant to have sorted that out by now! The Fijian 15 practically put the ball at the feet of the second rows!
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Ok, that's fair enough. Well played Fiji then with the matawalu break.
Yeah the ref was waiting for the TMO to flag it up...
Eh it's a marginal one it drops pretty straight (but I think marginally backwards (ITV player is rubbish and I can't get a HD feed)) and goes backwards when hits the ground. It's also a split second thing those kind of knock on's get missed all the time. Nothing to cry foul about really far bigger calls get missed than that one (even if it was one).
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However what's suppose to happen if the ref thinks it's marginally backwards (who has a better view and angle than we do)? The TMO isn't going to flag up a knock on unless it was clear, he can't go that far back when try is scored as it's well beyond two phases of play.
Absolutely nothing to get your nose bent out of shape over.
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Sorry completely wrong it's not a knock on as it hits his face.
DEFINITION: KNOCK-ON12
A knock-on occurs when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.
‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line.
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It was pretty clear he was looking for any opportunity to bin a Fijian
LiRFCMatt
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If any Welshman says that England's singing over the Fijian Cibi was disrespectful just show them this...
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I dont think the crowd singing is disrespectful. They weren't booing or jeering, the team faced it up front. However, weather conciously or not the coverage seems to shrink away from the haka/cibi/siva tau etc (going to wide angle, panning shots for a lot of it) and the microphoes seem to get turned down so you cant hear it
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According to the IRB they're English.
After watching the highlights, it was sin bin all day long now.
re: the penalty try, you can clearly see Matawalu gets underneath Tom Youngs, but it's not clear from any of the angles provided as to whether he's able to hold up Tom Youngs from touching the ball over the line. My suspicion is that he has succeeded, given that Matawalu is laid directly underneath Youngs though. Peyper looks like he had a better angle of what happened.
But regardless of whether or not it is a penalty try, the rules clearly state that a yellow can be given for an intentional offence, even if it doesn't stop a try:
10.2(a)
Intentionally Offending. A player must not intentionally infringe any Law of the Game, or play unfairly. The player who intentionally offends must be either admonished, or cautioned that a send off will result if the offence or a similar offence is committed, or sent off.
A penalty try must be awarded if the offence prevents a try that would probably otherwise have been scored. A player who prevents a try being scored through foul play must either be cautioned and temporarily suspended or sent off.
shtove
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valley commando
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Looks like Ali Williams was right, disgusted by the crowd singing whilst Fiji did the Cibi, why were there no ITV microphones to hear the Cibi.
Oh shut up you tart
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Yeah. That's the point I was making. I'm not contesting whether it WAS a penalty try. I don't care about that. I was just making the point that the yellow card was not harsh. It's fully permitted in the rule book.
TobesHodges
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I thought Farrell was far more direct in his play, he seems to have realised he needs to take the ball for more flat to account for his lack of running game..
The Jones Boy
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I'm contesting that it was excessively harsh, a sending off is also permitted in the rulebook, do you numpties think he should have had that as well for crying out loud.
If the idiot referee had have let play flow for a couple of seconds longer the English had the try scored, he could have had a word with the halfback, admonishment, thats in the rules, he didn't need to send him from the field and RUIN the game as a contest in the first 15 minutes.
The try England scored was in a very kickable position, punishment enough, he was overly heavy handed and Fiji never recovered from the diabolical decision as 12 unanswered points were racked up while he was off the field.
GOOD referees use their judgement, not good referees are over heavy in applying the rulebook.
The Fijians were NEVER going to win that game but it might have been closely contested for a half at least.
Totally unnecessary over harsh punishments will ruin the entire cup. (Along with the TMO nonsense.)
Instead it took the wind out of any Fijian sails and left us with a very dull opening spectacle until the Samoans entered the fray in the last quarter.
Illegally attempting to stop a try being scored is about as crystal clear a yellow that I can think of in a game. Referees nearly always give yellows for it.
The referee didn't ruin the contest, Matawalu did by doing something that is so clearly a yellow.
Oh and top international teams don't lose by 24 points because they conceded one yellow card.
edit: see that Cudmore has just gotten a yellow for illegal play near the try line, even though it didn't prevent a try.
The referee didn't ruin the contest, Matawalu did by doing something that is so clearly a yellow.
Oh and top international teams don't lose by 24 points because they conceded one yellow card.
edit: see that Cudmore has just gotten a yellow for illegal play near the try line, even though it didn't prevent a try.
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