Pro 12? Get the hell outta here - Guinness Pro 14: R.1

[Leonormous Boozer]

We're back! After a summer that saw an exhibition tour where three of our nations got friendly with the English in what I can only describe as an outdated, unprofessional and downright pathetic show of solidarity between four rugby nations who should viciously hate each other; saw young Irish heroes dismantle USA and Japan; saw Wales get the job done against the Pacific islander; saw the Scots gain an historic win in Australia and an historic loss against Fiji (**** you Warren Gatland) and saw our new boys, who we welcome with open arms, start a winning streak that now sees them on five consecutive wins of 15+ points*, we're done with the sub plots of world rugby and back to the main event. This is the bigger, the better, the more diverse, the more aesthetic, the more complicated, the sexier, the inaugural Guinness Pro 14.

(All times local to Dublin)
Friday
Cardiff v Edinburgh - 19.35 - Mid table madness right here folks, two sides who should be looking at European qualification and could mount a playoff challenge but likely won't, the home side to get a rather uninspired win.
Munster v Treviso - 19.35 - one of three South African sides playing on Friday, Rassie "Feckin Traitor" Erasmus' side should end Friday night as the only team on five points.
Ulster v Cheetahs - 19.35 - An all South African affair in Belfast, how will the new boys stand up in their new surroundings against a side who's only creative backline talent is Christian Lealiafano? (pending on a court decision) This game is there for the taking in Belfast and while they're proud people up in Ulster not many of them play for their rugby team. I think we may see a sneaky upset!

Saturday
Ospreys v Zebre - 14.35 - 5 points to the Welsh, move along.
Dragons v Leinster - 15.15 - Newport has the honour of hosting the injury stricken inaugural pro 14 champions, will the young soon to be conquerors of this rag tag group of major rugby nations get off to a slow start in Rodney Parade? Doubt it, they'll probably get a BP too!
Scarlets v Kings - 17.30 - Welcome to our new tournament, we're happy to have you and I hope you appreciate this opportunity. Now go lose away to our champions in your first game.
Connacht v Glasgow - 19.35 - Two teams who used to be good both home and away... Win for the westerners.

Ps. Dear South African fans, as you may have noticed this forum doesn't take itself too seriously and enjoys, for lack of a better word, banter. If you don't enjoy this please ignore it as it won't be forced upon you but please don't criticise me as I can't take it.
Yours lovingly,
The Alpha Bro.


*I'm sure Italy did something too but who really cares?

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Italy beat South Africa last fall.

According to lazy rugby logic this should be the year Italians avoid a wooden spoon.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

(All times local to Dublin)
Friday
Cardiff v Edinburgh - 19.35 - Mid table madness right here folks, two sides who should be looking at European qualification and could mount a playoff challenge but likely won't, the home side to get a rather uninspired win.
Munster v Treviso - 19.35 - one of three South African sides playing on Friday, Rassie "Feckin Traitor" Erasmus' side should end Friday night as the only team on five points.
Ulster v Cheetahs - 19.35 - An all South African affair in Belfast, how will the new boys stand up in their new surroundings against a side who's only creative backline talent is Christian Lealiafano? (pending on a court decision) This game is there for the taking in Belfast and while they're proud people up in Ulster not many of them play for their rugby team. I think we may see a sneaky upset!

You mean you see Ulster in with a chance against the Cheetahs who are yet to lose a match in 2 years (outside of Super Rugby)?

Ps. Dear South African fans, as you may have noticed this forum doesn't take itself too seriously and enjoys, for lack of a better word, banter. If you don't enjoy this please ignore it as it won't be forced upon you but please don't criticise me as I can't take it.
Yours lovingly,
The Alpha Bro.

Lets wait and hear what the court says.

Italy beat South Africa last fall.

According to lazy rugby logic this should be the year Italians avoid a wooden spoon.

I hate to admit that still hurts. A lot. I believe 2016 will carry SA through till 2019.

 

[ncurd]

I hate to admit that still hurts. A lot. I believe 2016 will carry SA through till 2019.

What hurts more that or losing to Japan?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

What hurts more that or losing to Japan?

Italy for me. Just poor poor poor. Losing to Wales the way we did was the cherry on top of a **** year. Japan we weren't even trying and it took Japan playing at 150% with all sorts of one off factors playing in their favor. Also at least Japan kinda meant something, served a purpose of a sort.

I also called beforehand that if Japan ever had a chance that was it in the face of guys calling for cricket scores so I ended up having to at least be able to say "I told you so" even if I didn't actually believe we were going to lose I still said 20 points max and probably closer.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

At least Japan was a team fulll of professionals with one of the world's best coaches during a hectic tournament atmosphere.

Italy is just a punch of guys playing in the pro 14.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Yeah, losing to Italy just felt... meaningless.

Anyway, I am calling
Cardiff
Munster
Cheetahs
Ospreys
Leinster
Scarlets
Glasgow

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Oh dear, a mod has found the place we call home.

Fancy a wee away win for Glasgow as I don't think Connacht can bully their pack and, in young Hastings, they have improved depth at 10.

Edinburgh has potential for an away upset as they have also impressed in flashes in the pre-season.

Treviso might compete at full strength with a couple of great international signings, but I doubt they or the Italian caps will play.

Zebre in dire straights with Padovani leaving (and the minor detail of bankruptcy).

Fancy Ulster at home. Scarlets might smash the Kings.

Does Hook play 12 more than 10? Baffled by him joining Sam Davies and Biggar at Ospreys if not.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Cheetahs are a strange one. If Ulster can play a measured game based on territory and the basics they should grind the Cheetahs down and win quite easily. If they get sucked into playing the Cheetahs at their own game the game can become a bounce of the ball type affair where I'd back the Cheetahs as they thrive off broken play. Any idea what sort of weather we are expecting in Ulster? I mean, its still summer over there right. How bad can it be?

The odd thing about the Cheetahs is they are the type of team that can be down three scores at 75 minutes and manage to score those three tries. They can also be up by 30 ad still lose in 20 minutes like they did against the Chiefs this year. Just a very chaotic setup. Its as if they've taken the idea of a bunch of actual cheetahs actually playing rugby and thought about it too hard. Keep the ball away from them and you are all but assured a win though.

 

[profitius]

Ulster have been poor in their pre season games apparently while the Cheetahs have been playing regular matches. Great chance for the cheetahs to get off to a winning start.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Ulster have been poor in their pre season games apparently while the Cheetahs have been playing regular matches. Great chance for the cheetahs to get off to a winning start.

That is my hope. It'd be a bit anticlimactic if both SA sides go down first off. At least from a SA POV and if my hope of SA making a shift en masse is to realize then our sides need to provide competition. I don't expect much from the Kings TBH so that burden falls to the Cheetahs. They have a chance here surely but my reservations are that they tend to tour poorly and this will be something of a patchwork side since they are without their Bok players and are carrying numerous injuries in particular to their 2 first choice flyhalves. That said they have managed to be competitive in Currie Cup and are currently undefeated in that tournament even if it has taken a few come from behind wins but in my experience Currie Cup form means little towards Super Rugby form so I don't take a lot of comfort from that. Will be interesting none the less.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Do you guys want me to make a match thread like I do for the Currie Cup?

 

[unrated]

With the Pro 14 coming so close after super rugby you could make the argument that Super rugby was a warm up tournament for the Cheetahs. Surely they will come into the Pro 14 match fit and battle hardened.if anything they will probably become weaker as the tournament progresses and they start to feel the fatigue of all this rugby. But if the Cheetahs can play like they do in the Currie cup then I will give them a decent chance of the top 4 (and remember super rugby begins long after the Currie cup ended while the pro 14 is basically overlapping the Currie cup so we can now compare Currie cup form like never before)

 

[munstermuffin]

Wow - The South Africans are already massively improving things. Last season I'd look on here and every week it'd just be Alpha in full conversation with himself. Now we already have 13 posts and not a ball kicked in anger.

Welcome Lads

 

[Amiga500]

Last season I'd look on here and every week it'd just be Alpha in full conversation with himself. Now we already have 13 posts and not a ball kicked in anger.

Don't worry, Alpha* will still be in full conversation with himself, there will just be more folks ignoring him


*decent job on the thread opener Bro - a start the blues would be proud of. (by blues I mean cardiff blues, not leinster blues)

 

[Amiga500]

With the Pro 14 coming so close after super rugby you could make the argument that Super rugby was a warm up tournament for the Cheetahs.

I'd prefer the term "curtain raiser before the main event"

 

[Amiga500]

Ulster have been poor in their pre season games apparently while the Cheetahs have been playing regular matches. Great chance for the cheetahs to get off to a winning start.

Big time. Cheetahs are strong favourites for tomorrow night in my eyes.

 

[Amiga500]

Do you guys want me to make a match thread like I do for the Currie Cup?

No no.

We are all about the cross-pollination of abuse and slagging.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Wow - The South Africans are already massively improving things. Last season I'd look on here and every week it'd just be Alpha in full conversation with himself. Now we already have 13 posts and not a ball kicked in anger.

Welcome Lads

Cheers. Nice to be here.

With the Pro 14 coming so close after super rugby you could make the argument that Super rugby was a warm up tournament for the Cheetahs. Surely they will come into the Pro 14 match fit and battle hardened.if anything they will probably become weaker as the tournament progresses and they start to feel the fatigue of all this rugby. But if the Cheetahs can play like they do in the Currie cup then I will give them a decent chance of the top 4 (and remember super rugby begins long after the Currie cup ended while the pro 14 is basically overlapping the Currie cup so we can now compare Currie cup form like never before)

Certainly their conditioning won't have been done with this in mind on the general but the funny thing thing is a lot of, actually the majority of their players havn't played a whole lot of rugby during SR with the amount of injuries they had possibly something of a blessing in disguise for Pro14? That and they have new signing and are expected to be getting in more new signings. Also, they still have a number of their better players out (Bok call ups and injury) so should be getting better if anything IMO.

 

[munstermuffin]

Agreed @TRF_stormer2010. Also unlike Super Rugby it isn't every week that teams will have their strongest team out due to Internationals player management etc.

I think both South African teams will finish mid table this season. Think they need the year to adjust to new grounds, travel scenarios and just things like that in general.
But they will be better as they progress to 2018-2019. Also there is no real pressure on them which will help too. Like nobody is expecting them to arrive and steam roll teams

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Wow - The South Africans are already massively improving things. Last season I'd look on here and every week it'd just be Alpha in full conversation with himself. Now we already have 13 posts and not a ball kicked in anger.

Welcome Lads

Talking to myself, that was so two seasons ago, Bruce was always here for me last year.

Anyway, I've come full circle in 24 hours and am now against South African inclusion after the realisation that we have a mod amidst our ranks who took the swear word out of my title. This used to be an ungoverned paradise!

 

[munstermuffin]

Talking to myself, that was so two seasons ago, Bruce was always here for me last year.

Anyway, I've come full circle in 24 hours and am now against South African inclusion after the realisation that we have a mod amidst our ranks who took the swear word out of my title. This used to be an ungoverned paradise!

They in the wrong town if they want Political Correctness. We are wild scavenging Motha F*******'s in this league.

 

[Amiga500]

The team news from Belfast and Bloemfontein is as:

Ulster
15. Charles Piutau
14. Andrew Trimble
13. Tommy Bowe
12. Stuart McCloskey
11. Louis Ludik
10. Christian Lealiifano
9. John Cooney

1. Kyle McCall
2. Rob Herring
3. Wiehahn Herbst
4. Robbie Diack
5. Alan O’Connor
6. Jean Deysel
7. Chris Henry (captain)
8. Marcell Coetzee

Replacements:

16. John Andrew
17. Callum Black
18. Rodney Ah You
19. Matthew Rea
20. Sean Reidy
21. David Shanahan
22. Peter Nelson
23. Darren Cave


Toyota Cheetahs
15. Sergeal Petersen
14. Rosko Specman
13. William Small-Smith
12. Ali Mgijima
11. Makazole Mapimpi
10. Clayton Blommetjies
9. Shaun Venter

1. Charles Marais
2. Jacques du Toit
3. Johan Coetzee
4. Justin Basson
5. Reniel Hugo
6. Paul Schoeman
7. Henco Venter
8. Niell Jordaan (captain)

Replacements:

16. Torsten van Jaarsveld
17. Ox Nche
18. Tom Botha
19. Rynier Bernardo
20. Gerhard Olivier
21. Tian Meyer
22. Cecil Afrika
23. Ryno Benjamin


---------------------------------------------
I've no idea about the Cheetahs... except they have spots on them and can run fast, so will focus on the Ravenhill lot.

On paper, that pack looks okish in the tight 5, with a pretty physical backrow. Question marks being: Herring had a bad season last year, needs to turn it around, Herbst had injury problems for a lot of it, hoping for a run of form and we're still waiting on Robbie Diack to grow a set - but this game could include his obligatory 40 mins of the season where he looks like Brodie Retallick crossed with erm... Brodie Retallick. We've also no 2nd row cover - so that likely means Diack will be his usual sh!te and we have no one to replace him with - if Diack is a passenger I'd hook him and play wee Dave Shanahan rather than an empty jersey.

Out the back, erm. In a word - cohesive*. Having McCloskey at 12 is a good break-glass option for generating a bit of momentum without having any kind of attacking structure - i.e. give him the ball, point at their 10 and make noises like a bulldozer. Maybe running with red Deysel (and Coetzee) will allow McCloskey to demolish more defensive lines, but we'll see.
Tommy at 13? Why not Cave at 13? Unfortunately Tommy is too-long-new, and they are trying to shoehorn him in to the side. Against a team that I gather is quite handy in open field, a defensive partnership of McCloskey-Bowe is not one to inspire confidence. They've also got Ludik and Piutau in the wrong jerseys.

All in all, augurs well for a debut Cheetahs win.

*warning: may not be true.

 

[Amiga500]

They in the wrong town if they want Political Correctness.

Exactly. We all know only too well that all politicians are a bunch of c**ts. Nothing correct about them.

 

[WaterboySA]

I see the Cheetahs play the Sharks team of 15 years ago? Any case, hope they can defend....this Cheetah back line can run.....

 

[Amiga500]

I see the Cheetahs play the Sharks team of 15 years ago? Any case, hope they can defend....this Cheetah back line can run.....

Nope. Expect there to be big avenues to run either inside* or outside** our 13.

*Due to McCloskey being bad positionally.
**Due to Tommy not playing outside centre in years.

 

[WaterboySA]

In other news, a person that will not be named called for a Kings win on Superbru, locking the choice after choosing, before seeing the Kings team for the first time. Who would think a team named after "very bad ladies" would be the defending champs??Pffft....

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

The team news from Belfast and Bloemfontein is as:
Toyota Cheetahs
15. Sergeal Petersen
14. Rosko Specman
13. William Small-Smith
12. Ali Mgijima
11. Makazole Mapimpi
10. Clayton Blommetjies
9. Shaun Venter

1. Charles Marais
2. Jacques du Toit
3. Johan Coetzee
4. Justin Basson
5. Reniel Hugo
6. Paul Schoeman
7. Henco Venter
8. Niell Jordaan (captain)

Replacements:

16. Torsten van Jaarsveld
17. Ox Nche
18. Tom Botha
19. Rynier Bernardo
20. Gerhard Olivier
21. Tian Meyer
22. Cecil Afrika
23. Ryno Benjamin

Solid enough looking Ulster side on paper though. A lot better than I feel we've been led to believe LOL.

Thanks for the breakdown.

On the Cheetahs... well. Lets just say before team announcements I had it as level with my heart saying Cheetahs and my head saying Ulster. Ulster looking fat ITO proven talent vs a Cheetahs side with even less substance than I was hoping for. With Francois Venter released from the Bokke I naively expected him to travel. The Ulster backline might look frail to an informered observer but the Cheetahs back line looks like a raver crop top from the early 90s. Basically a 7s side stuck onto a we-can't-afford-anyone-else pack.

What i do pick up on is it looks like the Cheetahs will be targeting the last 20 minutes as their bench looks more quality than the run on side. Nche and Van Jaarsveld are quality front rowers for any bench and look out for SA 7s star Cecil Africa off the bench.

Ulster should just keep it in tight and play a safe game. This Cheetahs side is a glass cannon. Capable of scoring tries from anywhere but will fold if run at and if the game is played tight. Look out for Mapimpi in the loose. Electric like Habana wishes he was in 2005.

So my final assesment; Ulster's to lose if they get suckered into playing too loosely or if they take the foot of the pedal thinking a 13 point margin is enough. That's the only chance I give the Free State ATM.

 

[WaterboySA]

Stormer did you see the last Cheetahs/Lions Curriecup game?Go watch it again, check that same back line run.....the team is full of blitsbokke, if they get a chance to run they will not need the last 20 minutes. You read it here first.....

 

[TRF_heineken]

Solid enough looking Ulster side on paper though. A lot better than I feel we've been led to believe LOL.

Thanks for the breakdown.

On the Cheetahs... well. Lets just say before team announcements I had it as level with my heart saying Cheetahs and my head saying Ulster. Ulster looking fat ITO proven talent vs a Cheetahs side with even less substance than I was hoping for. With Francois Venter released from the Bokke I naively expected him to travel. The Ulster backline might look frail to an informered observer but the Cheetahs back line looks like a raver crop top from the early 90s. Basically a 7s side stuck onto a we-can't-afford-anyone-else pack.

What i do pick up on is it looks like the Cheetahs will be targeting the last 20 minutes as their bench looks more quality than the run on side. Nche and Van Jaarsveld are quality front rowers for any bench and look out for SA 7s star Cecil Africa off the bench.

Ulster should just keep it in tight and play a safe game. This Cheetahs side is a glass cannon. Capable of scoring tries from anywhere but will fold if run at and if the game is played tight. Look out for Mapimpi in the loose. Electric like Habana wishes he was in 2005.

So my final assesment; Ulster's to lose if they get suckered into playing too loosely or if they take the foot of the pedal thinking a 13 point margin is enough. That's the only chance I give the Free State ATM.

I don't know if I can agree with you. That Cheetahs team looks better than I thought they would. And that backline looks damn potent. I just hope that the weather plays along and that it will be more running being done.

My only worry is who is going to kick at goal for the Cheetahs? Shaun Venter? Blommetjies??