[2013 ITM Cup] Premiership Final: Canterbury v Wellington

[Darwin]

...and can you tell me who the last All Black was who was selected on the form for his Provincial side having played even less Super Rugby than Luke Whitelock?

I assume the answer you are looking for is Sonny Bill Williams. Brodie Retallick had played fewer minutes of Super Rugby than Whitelock before being selected, but was not selected mainly on provincial form. Do I get a gold star

As Invictus points out though, the question should not be who was the last player selected for the AB's based on provincial form, rather who was the last player selected with little or no provincial/Super Rugby form. Toeava would probably be the correct answer to that question

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

I assume the answer you are looking for is Sonny Bill Williams. Brodie Retallick had played fewer minutes of Super Rugby than Whitelock before being selected, but was not selected mainly on provincial form. Do I get a gold star

As Invictus points out though, the question should not be who was the last player selected for the AB's based on provincial form, rather who was the last player selected with little or no provincial/Super Rugby form. Toeava would probably be the correct answer to that question

Surely SC's not talking about SBW, given that SBW had already played a lot of rugby at a similar level in France. Likewise Retallick had played a whole season for the Chiefs, starting almost every match, and playing almost 80 minutes every week. I'd imagine whilst he probably had fewer games at the level before being selected, he had certainly clocked up more game time than Whitelock has. Plus, of course, we were (/are) short of locks, whereas that's hardly the case in the loose forwards...

I'd just like to add that of course the selectors are likely to have better rugby brains than us plebeians, but for the life of me I don't know what it is that Whitelock does which is so endearing to the selectors. If they could come out and give us something to go on, other than he can play flanker and numer 8 equally well (/poorly), it would be nice.

 

[smartcooky]

Richie McCaw

Eight minutes of Super Rugby in the 2001 season is all he had before making his debut for the All Blacks against Ireland on the 2001 EOYT, where he got MOTM.

Sometime coaches can make great calls because they see something in a player that your average punter misses.

 

[Darwin]

Surely SC's not talking about SBW, given that SBW had already played a lot of rugby at a similar level in France. Likewise Retallick had played a whole season for the Chiefs, starting almost every match, and playing almost 80 minutes every week. I'd imagine whilst he probably had fewer games at the level before being selected, he had certainly clocked up more game time than Whitelock has. Plus, of course, we were (/are) short of locks, whereas that's hardly the case in the loose forwards...

I'd just like to add that of course the selectors are likely to have better rugby brains than us plebeians, but for the life of me I don't know what it is that Whitelock does which is so endearing to the selectors. If they could come out and give us something to go on, other than he can play flanker and numer 8 equally well (/poorly), it would be nice.

I was assuming Smarkcooky knew the correct answer to the question, hence I assumed he was talking about SBW (who was picked before playing any Super Rugby). Yes SBW had played a similar level to Super Rugby in France, but that wasn't part of the question. Likewise Brodie Retallick had only played 954 minutes of Super Rugby before playing for the AB's in the mid-year tests last season (http://www.itsrugby.co.uk/player_23733.html). Luke Whitelock has played 993 minutes of Super Rugby already (http://www.itsrugby.co.uk/player_19614.html) and has yet to make his AB's debut. So, again, I am technically correct

Richie McCaw

Eight minutes of Super Rugby in the 2001 season is all he had before making his debut for the All Blacks against Ireland on the 2001 EOYT, where he got MOTM.

Sometime coaches can make great calls because they see something in a player that your average punter misses.

McCaw certainly was a player selected on provincial form with less Super Rugby minutes than Whitelock. He was not the last player though. SBW and Toeava were both selected more recently for the AB's without even playing Super Rugby.

Anyways.... The comparison to McCaw is not a very fair one. McCaw had an brilliant season for Canterbury before being selected for the AB's. Every man and their dog could see he was an incredibly talented player that was destined to be an outstanding test player (much like Ardie Savea now). The same cannot be said for Luke Whitelock....

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Bugger, you got me

Well, Retallick's median game length was greater than Whitelock's currently is... Do I win on that account?

I actually typed up something about McCaw similar to what you've said, but my net cut out whilst posting it. The jist was that most people could see from his appearances in the NPC how talented a player he was. The same cannot be said for Whitelock.

EDIT: Actually, looking at those links you provided Darwin, I'm not too confident in their accuracy. They've got down Retallick's playing a number of games for his province each year, which are certainly incorrect. He definitely hasn't played any ITM Cup matches this year (they've got him down for five!) and I'm fairly certain he didn't play any last year either... So I wouldn't be taking their stats ad they are. It's probably not helped that both players have brothers, so they could well be mixing them up

SC is more likely to know, but did Whitelock really play all 18 matches for the Crusaders this year? He amassed quite a lot of Game time according to those stats, given he only started in 7 matches.

 

[Darwin]

Bugger, you got me

Well, Retallick's median game length was greater than Whitelock's currently is... Do I win on that account?

I actually typed up something about McCaw similar to what you've said, but my net cut out whilst posting it. The jist was that most people could see from his appearances in the NPC how talented a player he was. The same cannot be said for Whitelock.

EDIT: Actually, looking at those links you provided Darwin, I'm not too confident in their accuracy. They've got down Retallick's playing a number of games for his province each year, which are certainly incorrect. He definitely hasn't played any ITM Cup matches this year (they've got him down for five!) and I'm fairly certain he didn't play any last year either... So I wouldn't be taking their stats ad they are. It's probably not helped that both players have brothers, so they could well be mixing them up

SC is more likely to know, but did Whitelock really play all 18 matches for the Crusaders this year? He amassed quite a lot of Game time according to those stats, given he only started in 7 matches.

You are right that the site isn't 100% accurate (especially in terms of NPC stats - the certainly stuffed up with Retallick's ITM Cup stats this year as you mention!), but it is pretty good in terms of Super Rugby stats. Luke Whitelock definitely did play 18 matches for the Crusaders this season (see: http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/player/game-log?id=5580&name=luke-whitelock&team=50001), with 7 starts (when Read was out injured), playing over 700 minutes (the foxsports site has him at only 717 minutes though). Regardless, the exact minutes of Retallick and Whitelock are probably not really relevant - I was just being a bit of a smart arse (and I love being right)

 

[dasNdanger]

I'm just watching the match now. For now, mostly I want to know who decided it was a good idea to do a show tunes version of the National Anthem.


das

 

[Jaguares]

Congrats Canterbury!

 

[Sam Owen]

I found this game quite boring to be honest. Osbourne looks really promising. Canterbury same ole.

 

[ABs2011]

Congrats Canterbury! Missed the game (purposefully) as I do when I have a large chunk of $ riding on it - don't trust myself to not get jittery and pound a large bet on one side or the other

SO - I will get around to watching the game at some stage, but it seems Canterbury just simply outplayed Wellington for the majority of the game. I'm a bit sad to hear Savea and Shields were largely ineffective. Somehow Shields just isn't able to step up yet aye! Savea will have his time.

Just hearing on the radio - George Whitelock must be one of the unluckiest players going around. For sure he woulod be one of the first picked for the ABs iIF we still did long tours (and mid week games) a mid week AB captain if ever I saw one!