[2013 TRC] New Zealand vs. Australia in Wellington (24/08/2013)

[admartian]

Latest rumor out of Wellington is that Nonu will not sign with the Hurricanes and will take a sabbatical!

Paves the way for Sonny Bill?

 

[smartcooky]

I don't understand how England are above Australia and fairly close to South Africa. I don't know what it is about the English team but they just seem to grind out the results and just get under my skin ( probably cause I'm Irish to be fair ).

Apparently, IRB have given much importance to victory against ABs. Doesn't seem right, it was the last game of the year, ABs were tired.

Cheers

Not the all blacks, but the no. 1 ranked team...

Its not so much the ranking position of the team that is important, its the number ranking points (RPs) a team has compared with the number of of RPs the opposing team has.

A team with a high number of RPs playing team with a low number or RPs has more to lose if they lose than they have to gain if they win. Venue (home and away) and winning margin is also factored in.


Lets take Argentina v New Zealand in two weeks time.

Currently
NZL = 91.64
ARG = 76.41

If NZ win by any margin = no change, NZ is too far ahead on RPs

If result is a draw
ARG gain 1 point
NZ lose 1 point,
so NZL 90.64 - ARG 77.41

If ARG win by 15 or under
ARG gain 2 points
NZL lose 2 points
so NZL 89.64 - ARG 78.41

If ARG win by over 15
ARG gain 3 points
NZL lose 3 points
so NZL 88.64 - ARG 79.41

South Africa are 2nd on 87.29
Scotland 9th on 76.95
Ireland 8th on 79.58

so in all three cases of a draw or win to Argentina, NZ stay No. 1, Argentina climb to 9th

Now look what would have happened if New Zealand was in No 1 position with only just enough RPs to be ahead of South Africa, say, 87.39.
The same number of points are exchanged for draw or loss, so what happens to Argentina would be the same as the above example, however for NZ its a different story.

A draw would drop them to 86.39 (2nd behind South Africa)
A loss by 15 or less drops them to 85.39 (3rd behind England)
A loss by more than 15 drops them to 84.39 (4th behind Australia)

 

[ABs2011]

Paves the way for Sonny Bill?

I think SBW is a certainty so long as he decides to come back to Union. His 2012 season with the Chiefs won me over completely and I think if he committs to Rugby for a further 2 seasons there will be no-one who comes even close in terms of the 12 spot for the 2015 RWC.


It's good to watch him in the NRL as well. He has been a beast over there!

 

[ABs2011]

Good explanation of the rankings system here:
http://www.irb.com/rankings/explain/index.html

 

[jessta]

Nonu should always be in the squad for his experience etc, and i believe he will make the next cup as a squad member. however, it is definitely time to experiment with some younger folk, this will push and motivate nonu for one plus also expand NZs depth at 12. Alot have talk has been about NZ s lack of depth at 12, but there is actually alot of potential at 12. Saili needs some game time against Argentina, crotty is solid, plus tom taylor is now becoming a more realistic option. Not to mention ben smith at 12, but hel always be a better outside back, and the return of SBW, but NZ cannot sit back and wait for him to return. we should focus on developing our own players

 

[sifplay]

He made a lovely pass that put Folau into space. ...........

 

[jessta]

he had a poor game. the dumb shoulder on ben alexander (i think it was) and the intercept pass to falou! but the thing that really grinds my gears about the nonu these days which wasnt an issue in his younger years is his kicking game! why does he kick the ball so damn much? hes not in the all blacks as a kicking option. there was a time in the game he had dagg and ben smith to his right with a ton of space in the 22 but instead of passing and attacking he just blindly punted it down pitch! also you see him so much these days try chips or grubbers and silly tactical kicks in the oppositions half or 22 that very rarely come off, that is not the nonu of old! The commentators say every time he kicks the ball, "you dont see nonu do that often", absolute rubbish he kicks it all the time...

 

[smartcooky]

he had a poor game. the dumb shoulder on ben alexander (i think it was) and the intercept pass to falou! but the thing that really grinds my gears about the nonu these days which wasnt an issue in his younger years is his kicking game! why does he kick the ball so damn much? hes not in the all blacks as a kicking option. there was a time in the game he had dagg and ben smith to his right with a ton of space in the 22 but instead of passing and attacking he just blindly punted it down pitch! also you see him so much these days try chips or grubbers and silly tactical kicks in the oppositions half or 22 that very rarely come off, that is not the nonu of old! The commentators say every time he kicks the ball, "you dont see nonu do that often", absolute rubbish he kicks it all the time...

I don't think his kicks are always rubbish. Remember the grubber to put Savea in for the first try against France?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqPUcUhuT1g&t=0m15s

I think Nonu is an average kicker of the ball at best, but the worst thing is that he seems unable to read when the best time is to kick, and what type of kick to use.

 

[sifplay]

like when Lily missed him and he put a grubber kick in with no one before him

 

[admartian]

I don't think his kicks are always rubbish. Remember the grubber to put Savea in for the first try against France?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqPUcUhuT1g&t=0m15s

I think Nonu is an average kicker of the ball at best, but the worst thing is that he seems unable to read when the best time is to kick, and what type of kick to use.

Yeah his decision making has always been questionable for me. I think before opposing sides didn't always capitalise on his decisions. That's happening more now.

Also in defence, he tends to get excited and goes for "wow" play or stop behind the advantage line, but almost always whiffs on the ball carrier, thus jeopardising the defensive line.

 

[ABs2011]

On the Nonu / Nonu replaceemnt debate, has anyone actually watched Saili or Aki playing ITM cup this year? The guys can certainly attack BUT people are giving Nonu greif on his D, well I can safely say you would neve see Nonu leaking tries the way these two have this year!

 

[IRISH RUGBY MAN]

On the Nonu / Nonu replaceemnt debate, has anyone actually watched Saili or Aki playing ITM cup this year? The guys can certainly attack BUT people are giving Nonu greif on his D, well I can safely say you would neve see Nonu leaking tries the way these two have this year!

Yes but if Saili was put in the middle of the All Blacks and had quality all around him, he would not be leaking as many tries. I think he would shine, just as Luatua has done.

 

[smartcooky]

- Moore dotted the ball down over the line, the only reason I can think of him not using the TMO was if he saw a clear knock on, he didn't indicate that the balls was lost fwd and the replay showed nothing to suggest it. should have gone to the TMO who would have awarded the try.

IA, I just wanted to address this issue, because one of the referees at rugbyrefs.com appears to have spotted the problem

Stephen Moore was offside when he picked the ball up on the pick&go. He was standing beside the ruck and ahead of the last feet.

Have a listen to what Peyper says a moment or two after non-try

Just after the camera angle changes at 08:26, you clearly see Moore in the background and, through the ref's mike, you hear him ask "what was wrong with it?" and Peyper replies. "you were offside when you picked it"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex8vt1ZIJSU&t=8m8s

 

[ratsapprentice]

Fair enough. Good reffing.

If his hindmost foot was behind the ball would he have been onside?

 

[smartcooky]

If his hindmost foot was behind the ball would he have been onside?

It would depend on exactly what happened and we don't know because we never see a really clear view.

If he was genuinely acting as half-back, and he was standing behind the HMF, then he could pick the ball out of the back of the ruck. Fine

If he was standing behind the HMF, and the ball popped out the side of the ruck and he picked it up, then fine.

However (and I think this is what happened) if he was ahead of the HMF, and the ball popped out, and he picked it up, then PING!!

In this head on view, he definitely appears to be ahead of Fardy and if that is a ruck, then Fardy is definitely part of it. Also, Moore couldn't be acting half, because Genia is right there.

Its debatable whether or not that is really ruck, but its a judgement call for the referee to make, and generally if anyone is on their feet these days, elite refs will treat it as a ruck.

 

[admartian]

IA, I just wanted to address this issue, because one of the referees at rugbyrefs.com appears to have spotted the problem

Stephen Moore was offside when he picked the ball up on the pick&go. He was standing beside the ruck and ahead of the last feet.

Have a listen to what Peyper says a moment or two after non-try

Just after the camera angle changes at 08:26, you clearly see Moore in the background and, through the ref's mike, you hear him ask "what was wrong with it?" and Peyper replies. "you were offside when you picked it"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex8vt1ZIJSU&t=8m8s

AAAAAAAND cooky owns it again.

Now I wonder if the AUssie media will run a clarification now....? /eyeroll

 

[InsaneAsylum]

IA, I just wanted to address this issue, because one of the referees at rugbyrefs.com appears to have spotted the problem

Stephen Moore was offside when he picked the ball up on the pick&go. He was standing beside the ruck and ahead of the last feet.

Have a listen to what Peyper says a moment or two after non-try

Just after the camera angle changes at 08:26, you clearly see Moore in the background and, through the ref's mike, you hear him ask "what was wrong with it?" and Peyper replies. "you were offside when you picked it"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex8vt1ZIJSU&t=8m8s

Thanks for that mate, I knew I was going to pay dearly with laws and videos

 

[ABs2011]

Looks like Nonu will be rested for the next match. Either Crotty at 12 or potentially even Carter. Word is they want to rest Nonu's ankle and make sure he is good to go v SA.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Looks like Nonu will be rested for the next match. Either Crotty at 12 or potentially even Carter. Word is they want to rest Nonu's ankle and make sure he is good to go v SA.

You probably read the same article as I did, and it was particularly unclear on whether Crotty was selected ahead of Saili, or if Saili was already part of the squad at the moment... It makes it very difficult to tell with all these injuries + the training squad!

I'm hoping Saili gets a run... Wouldn't mind seeing Carter at 12 and Barrett at 10 though. Crotty is definitely my least favourite option.

 

[jessta]

You probably read the same article as I did, and it was particularly unclear on whether Crotty was selected ahead of Saili, or if Saili was already part of the squad at the moment... It makes it very difficult to tell with all these injuries + the training squad!

I'm hoping Saili gets a run... Wouldn't mind seeing Carter at 12 and Barrett at 10 though. Crotty is definitely my least favourite option.

Pretty bizarre situation. Saili originally part of training squad then injured his ankle leading to crotty getting the callup and being named on the bench in first bledisloe. Now saili recovered and playing itm cup but selectors now seem to have had a change of heart and are going to persue crotty. Just what ive gathered from articles