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[2013 TRC] South Africa vs. New Zealand in Johannesburg (05/10/2013)

Yeah Eben was huge in that game, don't know what this oke is on about.

Have to agree with all of Heineken's posts as well. Dammit, why must I agree with a bulls supporter.

Hahaha, Ag I'm not so bad...

Would it be any consolation that my second fav team is the Cheetahs?? I actually put them up for the win this coming weekend on Superbru.

But thanx for the support. Eben was my MOTM for the Boks in this game, with JDV a close second. That bump-off on Barrett was awesome...

Speaking of bump-off... WTF happened when Morne Steyn handed off an All Black, Was it Messam?? Even Morne was surprized, he stood still for a short while after the successful hand-off... probably his first and only time that would happen...
 
So Mission Impossible proved to be exactly that. I was pleased to see SA give it a go but it was a bit like watching the NZ v Wales Pool Game in 2003. "Okay you score four tries, we'll score five."

That dodgy red card in Wellington hurt SA, and we'll never know how that match would have turned out is Bismark stayed on the pitch BUT it was last week's inability to pick up 5 points against a beaten Australia that really cost SA. It really was mission impossible after that slip up and that was all SA's fault.

As for New Zealand. Generally, I admire the hell outa them. 4 million population, but they dominate this sport. All thanks to a near perfect rugby model. Its the attitude to work hard to win, the co-operation between domestic and test level, the outdoor culture of NZ where they hate staying indoors and the fact that commercialism hasn't really hit NZ yet.

Okay you have Auckland, which is a modern day city with all the things that people may love or loath, but then you have the rest of the country who are just so wonderfully unaffected by all the bull that comes with professional rugby elsewhere. They put the rugby first, it took them 30 odd years to put a sponsor logo on their test jersey and most of them don't like it even now. If it wasn't for the French and English pushing the rugby player contract price up they probably still wouldn't have a logo on their jersey.

I think the secret to NZ success is their integrity. The rugby comes first, there are public enquiries if they lose. Every other Kiwi will tell them they didn't try hard enough and that's why they play so well. Give so much and never give up if there is even the tiniest chance of pulling back a win. NZ is a country out of time but, as far as rugby goes thats a very, very good thing.

The rest of the world have only one real chance, and I don't condone it in the slightest. If corporations start throwing bundles of money at certain parts on the NZ set up and succeed in fragmenting it into something resembling everybody elses rugby model then NZ will have been dragged down to everyone elses level. I love the time capsule that is NZ and I'd a bit heart broken if this wonderful little country turns into one big Auckland and starts chasing the money like the rest of us do. I got a nasty feeling "Progress" will hit NZ eventually, but thats not a nice thought, bit like thinking about an elderly relative not being around anymore. Anyway... GO THE ALL BLACKS!!!! Worthy Champions! And NZ fans. What you have is worth fighting for. Its the envy of the rugby world. Look after it.
 
I also forgot to mention the mutual respect the 2 teams had for one another. Steve Hansen even said it in a statement that he applauds JDV for the manner in which the Bok Captain handled the TYPO-mistake during the game.

And I don't know if anyone saw it, but after the ceremony, HM went to Richie Mccaw and congratulated him, and they had a rather lengthy discussion... And then both had a chuckle and parted ways. This is the kind of thing I'd like to see more of. in every sport.
 
Great game. Sad about the result, but credit to New Zealand. No other team can finish as well as they can. If there is anything that separates these two teams, it's defense. The All Black defensive line is something to behold. Our defense let us down badly, as well as our ability to deal with the high ball. The All Blacks kicked virtually everything, and we were just ball watching the whole time.

I also hope that this is the last game we ever see Zane Kirchner play. He is disgustingly useless.
 
Great game. Sad about the result, but credit to New Zealand. No other team can finish as well as they can. If there is anything that separates these two teams, it's defense. The All Black defensive line is something to behold. Our defense let us down badly, as well as our ability to deal with the high ball. The All Blacks kicked virtually everything, and we were just ball watching the whole time.

I also hope that this is the last game we ever see Zane Kirchner play. He is disgustingly useless.

Haha, that bad hey?? That kick on the full from him in our own 22 was the last straw I hope...

Jaco Taute needs to man-up and quickly!!
 
Haha, that bad hey?? That kick on the full from him in our own 22 was the last straw I hope...

Jaco Taute needs to man-up and quickly!!

You just DON'T do crap like that against the All Blacks. Sideshow Bob has ruined one too many episodes this time. Juandre Kruger also needs to man up. He is a scared little girl who falls before he gets tackled, and gets in the rucks he looks like a bean pole, just getting barged away.

Etsebeth is going to be something else... He is already something else. He looks like a giraffe when he runs, and has incredible pace (He was an outside centre at school level).

Come 2015, we are going to be one HELL of a side.
 
what won the game for NZ was being able to stop the SA maul. That Maul from a 5m line out is SA most potent weapon and NZ finally managed to stop/counter it. Its the 1st time I've ever seen a team being able to stop the maul. Hansen and co must have been working extensively on this and I salute them.

i'm not sure why Messam was sent off, i'm sure mccaw caused the turnover and NZ had possession, the next minute the ref blows, off goes messam and SA score a try... no replays or nothing, I was like wtf???

messam (when on the field) and read was immense...

what happened with the coles, kevin name misprint issue ???? wtf ???

I think juan de Villiers said to the ref, its fine, coles can play, they will just deduct point from the log lol that was funny...

I've been saying for years that SA is too predictable, but that is because the play 1 dimensional morne steyn... put lambie there and the wins will come because the tries will come...

SA is usually a defensive team, but because they had to chase tries (for once) the left gaps and the AB cashed in

I told everyone at Heineken Meyers appointment that the problem lies with him... I believe any sport is won off the field. it starts with your gameplan and you as a manager to expose weaknesses in the opposition. SA is too predictable and I've been saying that for years. NOw HM has addepted a 1970's gameplan and rugby has moved on. A try is worth 5 now in 1970 it was worth 3 only the same with a penalty, so the reward was the same and you could kick for post whole day. Now competitions are based on bonus points which you get bcuz of tires. ya i'm stating the obvious but SA defensive gameplay is the issue. With ball in hand SA looked clueless at times, because they are not used to running with the ball from 1st phase.

SA with a running flyhalf will be much better then Morne Steyn and a coach that script the players on how to play, Ruan Pienaar I can see gets told on what he must do. I use him as an example as I know he is a running player and can think on his feet, but that is not the ruan I know. he is being told to play a kicking game and it does work for him. Yes manager tell the players how to play but to play according to their style or ability. That is why jantjies was so bad at the stormers this year, because he is an attacking player and he need to play defensively at the stormers (just an example).

The boks will need to work hard on their backline running, really really hard or they can stick to what they know, 1970's bulls rugby plan and stick with morne who knows this plan and finish 2nd every time... AUS seems to be coming back aswell so SA might be 3rd in the work again.
 
You just DON'T do crap like that against the All Blacks. Sideshow Bob has ruined one too many episodes this time. Juandre Kruger also needs to man up. He is a scared little girl who falls before he gets tackled, and gets in the rucks he looks like a bean pole, just getting barged away.

Etsebeth is going to be something else... He is already something else. He looks like a giraffe when he runs, and has incredible pace (He was an outside centre at school level).

Come 2015, we are going to be one HELL of a side.

Ugh! Juandre was pathetic!!

luckily he is effing-off to NH, and I hope is just one of the guys not going to be picked in the near future. Luckily PSDT et al are waiting in line and doing a mighty fine job...
 
They are? Your deduction skills are sublime.

yip, I have huge respect for McKenzie, much more than I have for Heineken Meyer. McKenzie is a thinker and a tactician, he just needs time in this AUS team, so SA and NZ better watch their backs...

but u right... what do I know...
 
I see on the log that AUS still has a game in hand :D
 
I also forgot to mention the mutual respect the 2 teams had for one another. Steve Hansen even said it in a statement that he applauds JDV for the manner in which the Bok Captain handled the TYPO-mistake during the game.

And I don't know if anyone saw it, but after the ceremony, HM went to Richie Mccaw and congratulated him, and they had a rather lengthy discussion... And then both had a chuckle and parted ways. This is the kind of thing I'd like to see more of. in every sport.

That really stood out to me during the game not at any point did it seem that one team was getting confident or cocky both sets of players were aware of the quality of players on the other team and it resulted in the intensity never dropping.
 
Agreed and was great to see, bet you off the field there are lots of friendships as well.
Few people know what Sonny BW and Hasheem Amla - SA cricket opener are friends
 
JDV is bloody awesome that's for sure. Very classy bloke and top player.
 
Barrett was faster than Le Roux at that moment in the game. At that stage Barrett had been on for about 25 mins, where-as Le Roux had played almost 80-mins of rugby. What I'm saying is that it very difficult to judge who is faster that who in a rugby game as it often depends on the situation. Personally I would probably back Barrett in a straight sprint over Le Roux (all things being equal), as Barrett is very quick for a 10!

Just a couple more quick thoughts on the game:

- It is hard to think of a better lock on the planet than Sam Whitelock. Etzebeth is an outstanding young talent too, and will certainly be among the top few locks in the world when he gets more experience (if he is not there already).
- Messam has his best game in black for me. Kaino certainly has his work cutout to get that 6 jersey back!
- Read is the best player on the planet (and has been for the last 2 seasons.....)
- Vermeulen was outstanding (again) at 8. I really wonder why it took so long for him to be given a Boks jersey (as he has been the best 8 in South Africa for at least 3 years in my opinion). Kolisi impressed me from the bench.
- Cruden was ok, but Barrett was outstanding.
- JdV was outstanding, really leading by example. Engelbrecht impressed too - his swerve to beat Savea was a think of beauty.
- Conrad Smith showed how much he will be missed when he takes his sabbatical at he end of year. Does he ever make a mistake?
- Habana was electric while he was on the field. It is amazing to think many had written him off a couple of seasons ago.
- Le Roux brings another dimension to South Africa's attack. However he is a liability on defense - scrum.com have him making 0/5 tackles :eek:
- Savea and Ben Smith were again dangerous on the wing, with Smith ruling air once again.
- Dagg showed some signs of life at fullback with ball in hand, and he was rock solid at the back.
I echo your thoughts above.

I'll add that:

- Ben Franks is dumb. Don't need to do what he did, especially since the other player (didn't seem) to be starting anything. And when he came on, had a near Bismarck-like elbow which he got away with, and seemed very thuggish. He can cut that out, thanks.
- there were some moments (not many) where Dagg would do his no-trademarked "fall over once a defender attacks you one on one" move. Luckily, there was usually a defender to help. But man, I missed Mill's clinical defence at the back.
- Savea is a beast. #mancrush
- JDV was inspirational. Great guy as always, love his little quips sometimes. Can't hate the guy for being class - all the props. :)
- Le Roux is dangerous.
- Habana is back. Does no favours for wingers of the future for when they eventually hit their wall - as people will look to Habana and reference his comeback to great form.


And to the current thread debates'

RE Ben Smith:
- NO he's not fast. But hew lacks in speed, makes up for vision and timing, and clinical. Though, he can get burnt by pure speed or athleticism at times.
- Still scores tries. now whether he creates them at times, is not really the point, the skills above (particularly his vision and timing) are what sets himself up for being at the right place and the right time.

RE Aaron Smith/Halfbacks:
- When is this guy going to get his props from some people? Has a good workrate in attack and defence. Yes he'll get bowled over but seriously, just look up his measurable and compare that to the average forward/centre/winger. :rolleyes:
- Comparing Aaron to TKB is ridiculous. TKB is probably the most defensively complete 9 in the world. And vice-versa, Aaron Smith is pretty snipey on attack, and f you don't have your eye on him, he'll exploit you. TKB's game is different./ Not better, not worse. THey just tend to attack differently.
- In saying that, I think TJ deserves a shot on the bench.
 
I echo your thoughts above.

I'll add that:

- Ben Franks is dumb. Don't need to do what he did, especially since the other player (didn't seem) to be starting anything. And when he came on, had a near Bismarck-like elbow which he got away with, and seemed very thuggish. He can cut that out, thanks.
- there were some moments (not many) where Dagg would do his no-trademarked "fall over once a defender attacks you one on one" move. Luckily, there was usually a defender to help. But man, I missed Mill's clinical defence at the back.
- Savea is a beast. #mancrush
- JDV was inspirational. Great guy as always, love his little quips sometimes. Can't hate the guy for being class - all the props. :)
- Le Roux is dangerous.
- Habana is back. Does no favours for wingers of the future for when they eventually hit their wall - as people will look to Habana and reference his comeback to great form.


And to the current thread debates'

RE Ben Smith:
- NO he's not fast. But hew lacks in speed, makes up for vision and timing, and clinical. Though, he can get burnt by pure speed or athleticism at times.
- Still scores tries. now whether he creates them at times, is not really the point, the skills above (particularly his vision and timing) are what sets himself up for being at the right place and the right time.

RE Aaron Smith/Halfbacks:
- When is this guy going to get his props from some people? Has a good workrate in attack and defence. Yes he'll get bowled over but seriously, just look up his measurable and compare that to the average forward/centre/winger. :rolleyes:
- Comparing Aaron to TKB is ridiculous. TKB is probably the most defensively complete 9 in the world. And vice-versa, Aaron Smith is pretty snipey on attack, and f you don't have your eye on him, he'll exploit you. TKB's game is different./ Not better, not worse. THey just tend to attack differently.
- In saying that, I think TJ deserves a shot on the bench.

I agree with almost all of that. I was going to mention Ben Franks myself, but I forgot to. I agree it was very dumb of him, and unfortunately that sort of thing has become a real trademark of his play this season. He really pushed the boundaries at times for the Hurricanes too, and I thought he was very lucky not to be given yellow cards on more than one occasion for dangerous swinging arms. It is all well and good to impose your self physically within the laws of the game, but Ben Franks has gone beyond that far too often this season and really needs to pull his head in as he will become a liability if this sort of play continues (especially if he gets a reputation for this sort of thing..).
 
Yeah Eben was huge in that game, don't know what this oke is on about.

Have to agree with all of Heineken's posts as well. Dammit, why must I agree with a bulls supporter.

Dont get your knickers in a twist i was not having a go at Eben he is a fantastic player but he's young and the context i was mentioning it was about SA being in a rebuild phase. Which they clearly are. The NZ supporters are getting to carried away with this win. yes it was a great win but I wont be reading to much into it as i can see that this SA side has alot going for it. They just need to get a few guys like du preez up to speed find better fullback and get the top two inches sorted out.

Eben will probably be the best lock in the world over the next few years.

I expected alot more out of SA this year so i am a bit disapointed in that respect. Maybe next year they will pose a real threat.
 
As long as the Bulls don't produce another Springbok lock, fly half or fullback we should be world beaters in the near future
/hide
 
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As long as the Bulls don't produce another Springbok lock, fly half or fullback we should be world beaters in the near future
/hide

What a kak thing to say.

Zane Kirchner was a Griquas product and only moved to the Bulls for the money... LOL!

But I think Handre Pollard would like to disagree with you there... And perhaps Paul Willemse too...

as for fullback, yes, the Bulls have nobody in that position, the last good fullback the Bulls had was Johan Roets!
 

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