[2013 TRC] South Africa vs. New Zealand in Johannesburg (05/10/2013)

[Sam Owen]

We weren't playing our natural game. We always try to slow the game down to assist our pack. This time we couldn't do it as we had to use every opportunity available to score a try. But fitness did play a part. We can have all the strength in the world, but if the guys can't keep the intensity going for the full 80, then we will always be in trouble.

Mallet makes a good point. The ABs much leaner, mobile forward pack makes them more all rounded which suits their style of play. The Bok pack suits their normal style of play but they were playing a running game which they can do but they seem to make more handling errors than their All Black counterparts and that may go back to their lack of fitness or other factors. The box kick which were a real weapon for the Boks a few years ago, wasn't working. If anything it inspired the Blacks to try it and when they did, Ben Smith just showed he's the man at the up and under.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Mallet makes a good point. The ABs much leaner, mobile forward pack makes them more all rounded which suits their style of play. The Bok pack suits their normal style of play but they were playing a running game which they can do but they seem to make more handling errors than their All Black counterparts and that may go back to their lack of fitness or other factors. The box kick which were a real weapon for the Boks a few years ago, wasn't working. If anything it inspired the Blacks to try it and when they did, Ben Smith just showed he's the man at the up and under.

yeah! We lost the Aerial battle. The only guy who can compete with Ben Smith is Bjorn Basson in the air. Pity that it's the only area where he could have made a difference. We also got some success with the box kick, but it was those 50/50 ones where the ball could fall anywhere...

 

[Sam Owen]

yeah! We lost the Aerial battle. The only guy who can compete with Ben Smith is Bjorn Basson in the air. Pity that it's the only area where he could have made a difference. We also got some success with the box kick, but it was those 50/50 ones where the ball could fall anywhere...

I think the ABs know when they're playing the Boks they can expect many things but the 2 things the ABs prepare well for are the mauls and the box kick. The Boks need to change it up, you can't always depend on the same ole tactics. Savea, Dagg and Smith probably spend 40 hours last week jumping up and catching high balls while the AB forward pack spent 40 hours trying to push back rolling mauls. The Boks need more.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I think the ABs know when they're playing the Boks they can expect many things but the 2 things the ABs prepare well for are the mauls and the box kick. The Boks need to change it up, you can't always depend on the same ole tactics. Savea, Dagg and Smith probably spend 40 hours last week jumping up and catching high balls while the AB forward pack spent 40 hours trying to push back rolling mauls. The Boks need more.

The box kick was hardly a weapon we used this year.

We only used it this time, because of Fourie Du Preez. It was to sort of a Back-up plan when other things didn't seem to work. But our chasers weren't always up for the chase.

As for the Mauls, it still had a bit of an impact, but yes, the AB's were ready for the challenge, apart from Hore who got a yellow for repeated infringements at the maul and ruck area...

 

[donmcdazzle]

When TKB comes on he actually makes effective tackles constantly and is like an extra loosie in that respect. If he can get the rest of his game upto a decent standard he's going to be very useful to have on the bench in certain situations.

'

what is the primary role of the halfback? Clear the ball right? Who does that better than anyone (by a long way)? Smith. If you want a good defender who can pass ok as well then you may as well play Sam Cane at halfback.

TKB had a shocker on the weekend. He went blind when it wasn't on, cleared poorly, took wrong options in general. I don't care how well he is defending, if he is doing his core role poorly then he is no good to me.

you clearly look for things to find fault with regarding Smith. Then when you can't find anything, or someone proves you wrong with objective facts, you resort to things like luck being the reason he is good.. Come on mate get real.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

what is the primary role of the halfback? Clear the ball right? Who does that better than anyone (by a long way)? Smith. If you want a good defender who can pass ok as well then you may as well play Sam Cane at halfback.

TKB had a shocker on the weekend. He went blind when it wasn't on, cleared poorly, took wrong options in general. I don't care how well he is defending, if he is doing his core role poorly then he is no good to me.

you clearly look for things to find fault with regarding Smith. Then when you can't find anything, or someone proves you wrong with objective facts, you resort to things like luck being the reason he is good.. Come on mate get real.

TKB didn't have a shocker. He lost the ball once when he tried to run and kick blind side, due to the ball squirting out as he was running to the ruck, and then he lost the ball again when we had an advantage and the ref semi indicated for play to stop then changed his mind, so TKB was caught with the ball. Otherwise there were no issues.

 

[donmcdazzle]

TKB didn't have a shocker. He lost the ball once when he tried to run and kick blind side, due to the ball squirting out as he was running to the ruck, and then he lost the ball again when we had an advantage and the ref semi indicated for play to stop then changed his mind, so TKB was caught with the ball. Otherwise there were no issues.

i don't dislike him, he is great for the Chiefs so I'm not clouded by dislike or anything. But yes there were issues, his continual going blind when there is about 3 metres isn't good (same thing happened last week), neither are the slow clearances.

 

[Sam Owen]

The box kick was hardly a weapon we used this year.

We only used it this time, because of Fourie Du Preez. It was to sort of a Back-up plan when other things didn't seem to work. But our chasers weren't always up for the chase.

As for the Mauls, it still had a bit of an impact, but yes, the AB's were ready for the challenge, apart from Hore who got a yellow for repeated infringements at the maul and ruck area...

With the box kicks I have seen between the 2 countries I'd have to say the ABs have been better at it that doesn't mean the Boks should stop doing it. They should time it better, element of surprise with sound execution.

Droppies??...we're are they?? Boks and drop goals are not unheard of.

The maul didn't work because JDV didn't realise that he just doubled the ABs determination when he turned down the shot at goal. When you say we're going for the try you got to dot down, if you don't the other team will have psychological boost while your team will feel slightly embarrassed. Yes do the maul but the maul is also a great decoy.

They need to mix it up.

 

[TRF_heineken]

With the box kicks I have seen between the 2 countries I'd have to say the ABs have been better at it that doesn't mean the Boks should stop doing it. They should time it better, element of surprise with sound execution.

Droppies??...we're are they?? Boks and drop goals are not unheard of.

The maul didn't work because JDV didn't realise that he just doubled the ABs determination when he turned down the shot at goal. When you say we're going for the try you got to dot down, if you don't the other team will have psychological boost while your team will feel slightly embarrassed. Yes do the maul but the maul is also a great decoy.

They need to mix it up.

Drop goals doesn't give you bonus points!

we were after tries, and when we did get them, we had to chase for the win!

 

[RyotoTheDragon]

what is the primary role of the halfback? Clear the ball right? Who does that better than anyone (by a long way)? Smith. If you want a good defender who can pass ok as well then you may as well play Sam Cane at halfback.

TKB had a shocker on the weekend. He went blind when it wasn't on, cleared poorly, took wrong options in general. I don't care how well he is defending, if he is doing his core role poorly then he is no good to me.

you clearly look for things to find fault with regarding Smith. Then when you can't find anything, or someone proves you wrong with objective facts, you resort to things like luck being the reason he is good.. Come on mate get real.

Agree. I can understand if this was Smith last year or the year before, where sometimes he would make silly mistakes, (e.g. putting little kicks over the top without anyone chasing and sometimes making the wrong decisions on passing short when we've had numbers out wide) but this year you cant complain. He's playing well and has the best passing game of any of the halfbacks in the country.

As for TKB, I posted a comment while watching the game asking whether or not we had any other halfbacks in the country, I thought he didn't really make an impact.

 

[Sam Owen]

Drop goals doesn't give you bonus points!

we were after tries, and when we did get them, we had to chase for the win!

Drop goals can build momentum though, can make the other team think what kind of Morne Steyn is playing and has been successful for the Boks in the past.

I just think the Boks need to reinvent their game to suit themselves. A bit of this a bit of that, things the ABs can't prepare for.

The All Blacks under Henry mixed it up quite a bit and had success, I think the Boks can do the same.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Drop goals can build momentum though, can make the other team think what kind of Morne Steyn is playing and has been successful for the Boks in the past.

I just think the Boks need to reinvent their game to suit themselves. A bit of this a bit of that, things the ABs can't prepare for.

The All Blacks under Henry mixed it up quite a bit and had success, I think the Boks can do the same.

I think you are over-criticising this match.

You shouldn't analyse this match with others, and a gameplan the boks used with other games they played or are about to play.

You'll see during the November matches in the NH, there will be a difference than this match. Things like drop goals, penalties from 50m out, etc will again be part of the Springbok-rugby gameplan.

 

[austingtir]

Agree. I can understand if this was Smith last year or the year before, where sometimes he would make silly mistakes, (e.g. putting little kicks over the top without anyone chasing and sometimes making the wrong decisions on passing short when we've had numbers out wide) but this year you cant complain. He's playing well and has the best passing game of any of the halfbacks in the country.

As for TKB, I posted a comment while watching the game asking whether or not we had any other halfbacks in the country, I thought he didn't really make an impact.

He has not been put under any pressure what so ever which is why he looks so great. You guys are far to enamored by this guy. Face it the teams we have played in the last couple of years have been way below average. Both the boks and Australia are in a full rebuild phase. This will not last forever. I was expecting more from the springboks in this game.... but when i look back they are starting a 21 year old lock for christ sakes... he's certainly a great player but 21 year old lock starting for the boks in that test,.. when have you ever seen that? Du pee was way out of sorts and almost looked past it in this game which I fully didnt expect but playing in Japan or wherever he was its probably not a huge shock.

Mark my words this will not last and when the pressure comes on Smith will be like a headless chook like the England game last year.

A week ago in Argentina Smith was terrible. Argentina seems to be one of the few to figure a few things out they just cant sustain it for 80minutes.... YET.

 

[Sam Owen]

I think you are over-criticising this match.

You shouldn't analyse this match with others, and a gameplan the boks used with other games they played or are about to play.

You'll see during the November matches in the NH, there will be a difference than this match. Things like drop goals, penalties from 50m out, etc will again be part of the Springbok-rugby gameplan.

I maybe overanalysing but during that game me and my mates said a lot of things that happened before it happened. It was kind of predictable play from the Boks at times.

All I'm saying if the Boks just mixed it up they'd be awesome. Even their supporters would be like wow.

Don't think Im being too critical. I'm just raising my opinion for a better Bok side.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I maybe overanalysing but during that game me and my mates said a lot of things that happened before it happened. It was kind of predictable play from the Boks at times.

All I'm saying if the Boks just mixed it up they'd be awesome. Even their supporters would be like wow.

Don't think Im being too critical. I'm just raising my opinion for a better Bok side.

fair enough, but give it time. I'm curious to see what the setup will be for the NH tours. and if a guy like Morne Steyn or Zane Kirchner will be selected. I'm guessing they will be as the injuries in those positions have limited our options. That said, I'm already in awe of the Boks. they did things that I didn't expect they would/could do. They have already brought a new dimension in their playing style. I think it's now more of a matter of execution.

They showed they can run with the ball. But made plenty of handling errors, at times there were also some communication errors. which played into the All Blacks hands. And to beat the 6th highest experienced All Black team in history is a real tough ask to do...

 

[RyotoTheDragon]

He has not been put under any pressure what so ever which is why he looks so great. You guys are far to enamored by this guy. Face it the teams we have played in the last couple of years have been way below average. Both the boks and Australia are in a full rebuild phase. This will not last forever. I was expecting more from the springboks in this game.... but when i look back they are starting a 21 year old lock for christ sakes... he's certainly a great player but 21 year old lock starting for the boks in that test,.. when have you ever seen that? Du pee was way out of sorts and almost looked past it in this game which I fully didnt expect but playing in Japan or wherever he was its probably not a huge shock.

Mark my words this will not last and when the pressure comes on Smith will be like a headless chook like the England game last year.

A week ago in Argentina Smith was terrible. Argentina seems to be one of the few to figure a few things out they just cant sustain it for 80minutes.... YET.

I dont get what your point is? I was saying that Smith is playing well, and that TKB didnt make much of an impact when he came on.

What does that have to do with the Boks and Oz being in a re-building phase? Is that our problem that theyre in that situation? No. We can only play what is infront of us. We can't speculate and say 'but oh they were not in theyre final form(DBZ reference) so that means we're not that good because we're already super saiyan and theyre just learning to power up.' haha

What do you mean by your comment that you expected more from the Boks? Did you want them to win or something? Is that what you expected?

Oh yeah about them starting a 21 year old lock we have Retallick and Whitelock who are relative young, and the reason why they have a 21 year old lock is because for one, he's a talented player, and two, Botha and Matfield are not there. When those two left they opened the gates for those wanting to enter. Might be similar to when Richie leaves, and you can already see it with Carter.

 

[Gena_ZA]

What a classic match, Grats to NZ, still better than SA at this stage.
SA improved a lot over the last 18 month, looking forward to 2014 and the World Cup with renewed confidence.
Hopefully by then we have a fly half that can tackle and an above average 15.

 

[Darwin]

He has not been put under any pressure what so ever which is why he looks so great. You guys are far to enamored by this guy. Face it the teams we have played in the last couple of years have been way below average. Both the boks and Australia are in a full rebuild phase. This will not last forever. I was expecting more from the springboks in this game.... but when i look back they are starting a 21 year old lock for christ sakes... he's certainly a great player but 21 year old lock starting for the boks in that test,.. when have you ever seen that? Du pee was way out of sorts and almost looked past it in this game which I fully didnt expect but playing in Japan or wherever he was its probably not a huge shock.

Mark my words this will not last and when the pressure comes on Smith will be like a headless chook like the England game last year.

A week ago in Argentina Smith was terrible. Argentina seems to be one of the few to figure a few things out they just cant sustain it for 80minutes.... YET.

Forgive me if I don't have a lot of faith in your predictions regarding Aaron Smith:

09/03/13​

Looks to me like the AB selectors are going to be left with a vastly improved and confident weepu and most likely kerr barlow as halfbacks this year.

Aaron smith is **** i dont rate him a chance at wearing a AB jersey again. Looks like a possum in the headlights behind that highlanders pack just like in the test against England.

I feel like when the forwards are on the back foot Smith is more of a hinderance than a help. The AB's will not get games like they did last year the other teams will be far better. I wouldnt even risk him this year.

08/05/13​

Yes absolutly and i still think he sucks all you fan boys can keep flapping your hands in the air about him as much as you like I dont care. Super doesnt mean jack when it comes to internationals. A Smith had a super easy ride last year. He'll be found out this year mark my words. I bet weepu plays more games by the end of the season.

I for one am pretty glad the AB's selectors 'risked' him this year! Your whole argument seems to be other teams are going to work Aaron Smith out (how exactly is anyone's guess...). It isn't happening. Smith has been even better for the AB's this year than last year - I can only think of one poor performance in Black this year (the match vs Argentina which you have already alluded to). Aaron Smith's incredible passing game is crucial to the AB's current game-plan - without him the AB's would have to adjust the way they are playing (and given the way the just keep winning I can't see any logic in that!). The AB's aren't winning games at the moment in spite of Aaron Smith - he is a big part of why they are currently so successful. So forgive us Aaron Smith 'fanboys'* (as you have described us) if we continue to think Aaron Smith is a good choice as AB's halfback until other sides all get substantially better and/or 'figure Smith out'.

* "Fanboys" include myself, the AB's coaches, Jamie Joseph, and almost all the posters on the forum apart from austingtir

 

[Gena_ZA]

"starting with a 21 year old lock" - is this guy referring to Eben Etsebeth?
If so, just stop watching the game dude, it's above your grasp

 

[Sker]

Yeah Eben was huge in that game, don't know what this oke is on about.

Have to agree with all of Heineken's posts as well. Dammit, why must I agree with a bulls supporter.