[2014 EOYT] South Africa

[welshglory]

Flyhalves as captains in the modern era just never seem to work

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Always a tough tour, and particularly relevant considering where the WC is. I would kill to see de Jongh get some game time, I don't even think it's WP bias, JDV and Jan are great but they don't have the x-factor that Juan brings, he has been quiet in the past but with our new flatter game plan I really feel like he could cut other teams apart. Defensively I think he could be just as good as Serf as well, ultimately our best bet may even be Serf at 12 and Juan at 13 but we can't really drop our captain.

Elsewhere our props probably need some competition but I don't think Malherbe, Marcel and Nkanye are quite ready, hopefully they all get some good game time to develop in SR but for now I'm happy with Beast and JdP for the EotY tests. Eben and Lood aren't in the best form but their more physical style may actually work out better in the North. I'm happy with Victor starting, I just hope he can maintain form until the WC because as things stand, we need him.
Loose trio needs very little work although I'm undecided on who is the better option between Marcel and Willem.

Hougie please keep your form!
For once at fly-half we seem OK with Pollard and Lambie both looking hungry, hopefully they can both build on their relatively good run of form.
I've mentioned my thoughts on the centres (although it's really nitpicking as I'm not really that unhappy with JDV and Serf), and outside backs are good although Habana will need to show he's still up for it over the next year.

It will be interesting, the NH tour has a habit of disappointing me, and making me feel like we've taking a step backwards. It may be due to the fact that it's at the tail end of a very long season, but so is the world cup!

I'm also of the opinion 12 Serfontein, 13 De Jongh might be our best center combo, at least in combination with Hougaard and Pollard in the halves and Le Roux, Habana and Hendricks out wide. It is a backline that would be able to actually do stuff with the ball in hand. So I am praying for JdJ to get that deserved call up. No reason why JdV can't be 'rested'; I agree with Heineken he has (along with jannie and Hendricks) been poorish in defense. There are enough other leaders in the group with Matfield having a very high win % as captain. Happy enough with the old man starting as long as he is in this kind of shape; played like a 22 year old in Cape Town against the Aussies.

Habana is still looking good. The tries are being scored on the other end but Habana's impact off the ball is just staggering. Think he make something like 3 or 4 turn overs and his intensity in the opening minute Saturday set the pace?

I think malherbe has shown enough with the few test caps he has that he is a better TH option than Jannie as is. Marcel van der Merwe is the perfect 'impact sub' at prop. We are pretty much set in the prop department in that we are probably stuck with Beast and Jannie as incumbents but I am very excited about our front row post RWC 2015 with Thomas du Toit and the Lions' pair sure to make an impact on the international stage iMO behind Malherbe and MvdM who should be reaching their top form post 2015.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I'm also of the opinion 12 Serfontein, 13 De Jongh might be our best center combo, at least in combination with Hougaard and Pollard in the halves and Le Roux, Habana and Hendricks out wide. It is a backline that would be able to actually do stuff with the ball in hand. So I am praying for JdJ to get that deserved call up. No reason why JdV can't be 'rested'; I agree with Heineken he has (along with jannie and Hendricks) been poorish in defense. There are enough other leaders in the group with Matfield having a very high win % as captain. Happy enough with the old man starting as long as he is in this kind of shape; played like a 22 year old in Cape Town against the Aussies.

Habana is still looking good. The tries are being scored on the other end but Habana's impact off the ball is just staggering. Think he make something like 3 or 4 turn overs and his intensity in the opening minute Saturday set the pace?

I think malherbe has shown enough with the few test caps he has that he is a better TH option than Jannie as is. Marcel van der Merwe is the perfect 'impact sub' at prop. We are pretty much set in the prop department in that we are probably stuck with Beast and Jannie as incumbents but I am very excited about our front row post RWC 2015 with Thomas du Toit and the Lions' pair sure to make an impact on the international stage iMO behind Malherbe and MvdM who should be reaching their top form post 2015.

Speaking of the Tank engine. Why not take him along. He is the ideal candidate to take along on the tour, maybe even give him a run against Italy. Adriaanse is also fit again, so there's another tighthead who could help out.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Speaking of the Tank engine. Why not take him along. He is the ideal candidate to take along on the tour, maybe even give him a run against Italy. Adriaanse is also fit again, so there's another tighthead who could help out.

I wouldn't mind but the political fallout from him leapfrogging Nyakane though..

 

[TRF_heineken]

I wouldn't mind but the political fallout from him leapfrogging Nyakane though..

Nyakane will go anyway. But I hear you... Maybe they'll take Lizo Gqoboka along, who was with the Boks earlier in for a few days during the RC

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Nyakane will go anyway. But I hear you... Maybe they'll take Lizo Gqoboka along, who was with the Boks earlier in for a few days during the RC

It's a tough one. Nyakane has been with the Bokke longer but I think everyone not wearing shaded goggles would agree Du Toit is- even at this moment- subjectively a better player. I'm not saying guys like Mohoje, Nyakane or Gqoboka couldn't be test class players but if we are being honest the likes of Schalk Burger/Whiteley/Carr and Du Toit/Redelinghuys/Van der Merwe are arguably better players. That got me thinking... what would a traditional, Nguni, black like the ANC wants it SA XV look like? Or am I skirting the PC box now? **** it, you know me, I can't not do a XV;

1 Trevor Nyakane
2 Scarra Ntubeni
3 Brian Mujati
4 Daniel Adongo
5 Luvuyiso Lusaseni, Tazz Fuzani... what is that other guys name.. his nickname is 'Giant'.. Giant Mtembu? No, I'm thinking of Tera which would make the squad for sure
6 Tera Mtembu
7 Siya Kolisi
8 Teboho 'Oupa' Mohoje
9 ?
10 ?
11 Seabelo Senatla
12 Lionel Mapoe (okay, maybe the ANC might have issue here)
13 Sburo Sithole
14 Wandile Mjekevu - in France it's true but an underrated player IMO, otherwise Sergeal Petersen or Raymond Rhule
15 Lwazi Mvovo

Actually that squad if we could get a 9/10 combination to match could potentially be pretty competitive. Maybe on a par with Argentina even?

 

[Jer1cho]

yeah the only game South Africa are sure to win is the one when uhh...when in Rome. I could absolutely see them losing the other 3, would be a bit strange the Boks would lose 3 of 4, but England in England, Wales in Wales, Ireland in Ireland...atm, that's quite the program. Way too far right now to tell, a lot can and will happen from now til then, and we need to see who's available for those specific fixtures, but nevertheless I'll say this for the Cardiff one: those damn Springboks WILL at some point find themselves trailing to an enraged Welsh side and will eventually edge them just at the end. It's been happening for the past decade, why stop now, eh ?
For Eng and Ire, I've no particular comment as of right now..other than I think they'll both be very hard to win for SA, and would envision very tight affairs.

Anything other than 4 from 4 will be considered a failure. I also think that we are better than Wales, England and Ireland. We might struggle in one or two games, but 3 losses? Not a chance. We haven't lost in the NH for 3 years. No reason why it will be any different this time round.

 

[SomeOke]

Anything other than 4 from 4 will be considered a failure. I also think that we are better than Wales, England and Ireland. We might struggle in one or two games, but 3 losses? Not a chance. We haven't lost in the NH for 3 years. No reason why it will be any different this time round.

Careful...
I'd accept a single loss actually, although we do need to prove we can beat England at home if we want to be serious contenders. We have a very tough run in the WC (not that we shouldn't 2007 was a bit of a fluke draw).

If we win our pool it will probably pan out as:
QF: England/Aus/Wales?
SF: NZ (ouch)
Final: Enland/Aus/Wales?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Careful...
I'd accept a single loss actually, although we do need to prove we can beat England at home if we want to be serious contenders. We have a very tough run in the WC (not that we shouldn't 2007 was a bit of a fluke draw).

If we win our pool it will probably pan out as:
QF: England/Aus/Wales?
SF: NZ (ouch)
Final: England/Aus/Wales?

[TABLE="class: wikitable sortable jquery-tablesorter"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TH="class: headerSort"]Details[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort, align: center"]Played[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort, align: center"]Won by

England[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort, align: center"]Won by

South Africa[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort, align: center"]Drawn[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort, align: center"]England points[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort, align: center"]South Africa points[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]In England[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]299[/TD]
[TD]286[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]In South Africa[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]213[/TD]
[TD]362[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Neutral venue[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]52[/TD]
[TD]101[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Overall[/TD]
[TD]36[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]564[/TD]
[TD]749[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]

I think we have proven we can beat England in England. We should be more worried about Ireland IMO. Our record away against England is positive at 10 -8 overall. Even more so if you add the 3 neutral games. More importantly our recent history against them reads:



[TABLE="class: wikitable"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Date[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Venue[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Score[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Victor[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Comments[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]24 November 2012[/TD]
[TD]Twickenham, London[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]15 – 16[/TD]
[TD]

South Africa[/TD]
[TD]2012 Autumn International[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]23 June 2012[/TD]
[TD]Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, Port Elizabeth[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14 – 14[/TD]
[TD] Draw[/TD]
[TD]2012 mid-year rugby test series[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16 June 2012[/TD]
[TD]Coca-Cola Park, Johannesburg[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]36 – 27[/TD]
[TD]

South Africa[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9 June 2012[/TD]
[TD]Mr Price Kings Park, Durban[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]22 – 17[/TD]
[TD]

South Africa[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]27 November 2010[/TD]
[TD]Twickenham, London[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]11 – 21[/TD]
[TD]

South Africa[/TD]
[TD]2010 Autumn International[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]22 November 2008[/TD]
[TD]Twickenham, London[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6 – 42[/TD]
[TD]

South Africa[/TD]
[TD]2008 Autumn International[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]20 October 2007[/TD]
[TD]Stade de France, Paris[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6 – 15[/TD]
[TD]

South Africa[/TD]
[TD]2007 Rugby World Cup Final[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14 September 2007[/TD]
[TD]Stade de France, Paris[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0 – 36[/TD]
[TD]

South Africa[/TD]
[TD]2007 Rugby World Cup pool match[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2 June 2007[/TD]
[TD]Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]55 – 22[/TD]
[TD]

South Africa[/TD]
[TD]2007 England rugby union tour of South Africa[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]26 May 2007[/TD]
[TD]Vodacom Park, Bloemfontein[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]58 – 10[/TD]
[TD]

South Africa[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]25 November 2006[/TD]
[TD]Twickenham, London[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14 – 25[/TD]
[TD]

South Africa[/TD]
[TD]2006 South Africa rugby union tour of England[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]18 November 2006[/TD]
[TD]Twickenham, London[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]23 – 21[/TD]
[TD]

England[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]


I get what you mean though; we havn't faced them in 2013 or mid year 2014 and the last two games in 2012 where as tight as they come with 1 point margin over the last two games. That said I am not worried; 2012 England was looking as good as they do now and we were a year behind them ITO rebuilding those matches effectively being HM first as new coach. We've come a long way since then. We should probably win all 4 if Pollard/Lambie can make their kicks at goal.

That said, yes the setup is such that the SANZAR nations wil have to knock each other out to face a Euro side in the final. It makes for better viewing numbers. If you wanted a 'fair' setup watch the Rugby Championship.

 

[SomeOke]

Haha I don't think it's unfair, if Aus were to perform well we could be playing them in the final, and not every world cup can be set up for a NZ vs SA final .

The only silly thing about this world cup is that the current 3,4,6 are in the same pool, I know the pools are done in advance but still.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I edited the OP to include logo's and the match referee.

A full list of the match officials:

Ireland v South Africa Aviva Stadium, Dublin, 8 Nov 2014 17:30
Referee: Romain Poite (FFR)
Assistants: Mathieu Raynal (FFR) Alexandre Ruiz (FFR)
TMO: Jim Yuille (SRU)

England v South Africa Twickenham, London 15 Nov 2014 14:30
Referee: Steve Walsh (ARU)
Assistants: Jérôme Garcès (FFR) Nick Briant (NZR)
TMO: Eric Gauzins (FFR)

Italy v South Africa Stadio Euganeo, Padova 22 Nov 2014 15:00
Referee: Jérôme Garcès (FFR)
Assistants: Pascal Gauzere (FFR) Alexandre Ruiz (FFR)
TMO: Gareth Simmonds (WRU)

Wales v South Africa Millennium Stadium, Cardiff 29 Nov 2014 14:30
Referee: John Lacey (IRFU)
Assistants: George Clancy (IRFU) Pascal Gauzere (FFR)
TMO: Graham Hughes (RFU)


I will edit the OP again when the touring squad is announced on the 26th? and will replace the 'specualtion list' with the final touring squad of 36.

 

[TRF_heineken]

The squad will be announced just after the final whistle of the Currie Cup final.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

So the 25th then, thanks, Hein. I can narrow it down to 31 players. I think it's the other 5 that will be the usual combination of pleasant surprises and disappointments.

 

[Icemn]

i only see SA beating Italy.. maybe Ireland...

 

[nickdnz]

i only see SA beating Italy.. maybe Ireland...

They just beat the All Blacks..

 

[TheSaffycen]

I see them beating Italy by 15. Beating Wales by 10 and the other 2 will be between 5 points either way.

 

[Icemn]

They just beat the All Blacks..

so? they are only a threat playing at home in South Africa... on the road they are poor...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

so? they are only a threat playing at home in South Africa... on the road they are poor...

We have a current 3 year 100% sucess record in Europe. Better than the ABs can boast at this moment. So I wouldn't say 'poor'.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

so? they are only a threat playing at home in South Africa... on the road they are poor...

They'll win all four games! Ireland are ****ed with injuries, England play very similar rugby but not as effective and Wales need to play a Southern Hemisphere side about 7 times in the space of two years to beat them at the moment!

 

[Icemn]

We have a current 3 year 100% sucess record in Europe. Better than the ABs can boast at this moment. So I wouldn't say 'poor'.

i would brag about those #stampkar #smoorwen if i were you...