[2014 Mid-Year Tests] Crusaders vs England XV

[TRF_Olyy]

Seymour.

 

[goodNumber10]

this guy?

 

[Darwin]

this guy?

View attachment 3029

Nah, I'm pretty sure he is referring to this guy:

Unfortunately I missed the match, but was slightly disappointed the Crusaders didn't get closer. Obviously it wasn't close to their top lineup, but I felt there was enough quality players to give this English side a bit of a fright, especially considering the majority of them have been playing / training together for the last 6 months. It was nice to see Jordan Taufua made a bit of an impact on James Haskell though I'm a massive of Taufua - he's not the biggest guy around, but sure can certainly make an impact in both attack and defense!

 

[Tony Manx]

Nah, I'm pretty sure he is referring to this guy:

This one?

 

[Muzzy]

This isn't the Crusaders this is Canterbury from the ITM Cup

This one?

View attachment 3030

Flatass McFlats?

 

[goodNumber10]

ok, so watched the full game on my commute this morning paying particular attention to Kvesic.

Think he had a good game don't think he was any more impressive than Haskell though.

Couple of nice carries, nice steal in the first half.

But i do think he needs to improve the reading of the game a lot his tracking lines are not great, Haskell and Johnson often beat him to the breakdown which saw him setting himself as a carrier on the next phase. Defensively he sits quite wide in midfield i want him one or two more in.

He also looks HEAVY! I'd be interested to know how he scores in speed and fitness tests against people like robshaw and wood etc....(not that better scores means better player).

I honestly didn't see anything in the game that made me think he'd displace any of the current 1st team options.

Rats, would be good to know what it is you're seeing that polevaults him all the way up the rankings.


Also unrelated but how much of a d*ckhead was the Crusaders 12, Kieron Fonotia? he was putting it about a bit, gave Cipriani a dig, then Attwood when they scored their try. Cipriani laughed at him and Attwood looked like a guy pushing an annoying hair away from his face.

 

[Patchey]

A quote from Lancaster from Sky:

"For me the man-of-the-match was Matt Kvesic, I thought he was outstanding, the best game I've seen him play in a long time," said Lancaster.

Clearly he is a fan. But it's the permanent question of whether he's enough of a fan to ever pick him over any of our current first XV back rows.

Also, I don't think it matters exactly why we've seen players making breaks get isolated a turned over. If support is there that won't happen whatever the root cause.

 

[Maverick1987]

If you want support running then you need Chris Ashton - http://www.thescore.ie/chris-ashton-england-new-zealand-analysis-1520341-Jun2014/

Ultimatley though support running is not an exclusive backrow role, it is for every member of the team to do.

Yesterday Anthony Watson ran a fantastic support line got ball stepped the fullback and then used his pace to burn off 2 players . Ashton couldn't do that . So why don't we play Watson . Plus he can tackle which is always good

 

[big ginger 8]

Dave.

Seymour.

Double Post.

BAN!​

 

[goodNumber10]

Yesterday Anthony Watson ran a fantastic support line got ball stepped the fullback and then used his pace to burn off 2 players . Ashton couldn't do that . So why don't we play Watson . Plus he can tackle which is always good

Got no argument there, I'd like to see Watson given a run, but he wont' get one.

 

[Patchey]

Do you think it's possible to construct a half decent XV of 'players we all agree are good but who just won't get a run out in a real game'?

Best I can do is:

1 ???
2 Ward
3 Sinckler
4 Stooke
5 Slater
6 Wallace
7 Kvesic
8 Clifford (Sketchy I know)
9 Simpson / Robson
10 Cipriani (only gets a look in because of massive amount of injury) / Slade
11 Sharples, JSD (or any non Ashton winger)
12 Eastmond ?
13 JJ
14 Watson
15 Daly

 

[ratsapprentice]

He also looks HEAVY! I'd be interested to know how he scores in speed and fitness tests against people like robshaw and wood etc....(not that better scores means better player).

He's the lightest of the three at 104kg and by all accounts (a Sky video interview with their head of s&c) is one of the best athletes in the squad; if not the best.
I'd be very surprised if Robshaw or Wood were anywhere near as fast as he is and he and Robshaw probably have similar motors.

In that game he made more tackles than Johnson and Haskell put together - he ran more often, for more metres than either of them and distributed the ball well after committing defenders.
When he carried into traffic he made good ground in the tackle and beat 2 defenders.

Aside from the three turnovers he made - he significantly slowed opposition ball down at the ruck 7 times. He's a ****ing nuisance at the breakdown.

 

[goodNumber10]

He's the lightest of the three at 104kg and by all accounts (a Sky video interview with their head of s&c) is one of the best athletes in the squad; if not the best.
I'd be very surprised if Robshaw or Wood were anywhere near as fast as he is and he and Robshaw probably have similar motors.

interesting...he looked big yesterday, just upper body big - hence the heavy comment.

In that game he made more tackles than Johnson and Haskell put together - he ran more often, for more metres than either of them and distributed the ball well after committing defenders.
When he carried into traffic he made good ground in the tackle and beat 2 defenders.

Aside from the three turnovers he made - he significantly slowed opposition ball down at the ruck 7 times. He's a ****ing nuisance at the breakdown.

You know my view on stats, i'd like to see what tackles were dominant and so on, as i thought I saw him get blown off contact a couple of times.

His distribution is pretty bl*ody good, and i failed to mention that earlier, he gave a perfect masked pass on the Goode try for example.

where are your stats from Rats?

 

[Patchey]

He has massive biceps and traps so I think he just looks quite a bit heavier than he is.

I'd love to see some form of bleep test scores between him, Robshaw and Wood. I reckon he'd hold his own easily.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

One thing I would add is none of the tackling I saw in the second test was dominant.

I thought we really missed someone who smashes players back, apart from maybe marler.

 

[ratsapprentice]

He's not just got a big upper body - his legs are massive... just a supreme athlete.

The stats? - I counted them.
I don't recall any tackles where he was dominated - they were all good solid tackles... but you show me anyone who can make 17 properly dominant tackles in a game and I'll show you the richest player in the game.

 

[goodNumber10]

i don't think he needs to make 17 dominant tackles - he needs to make the right tackles for the situation - if that makes sense.

I've got the game on my phone - i'm going to double check your stats and if they're wrong you're for it buddy!

 

[goodNumber10]

For Rats....

https://twitter.com/EnglandRugby/status/479238442715725824/photo/1

 

[ratsapprentice]

England's "tackles made" are strange - they are consistently higher than the opta stats... they are definitely including something other than completed tackles.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>17 + 2 - The number of tackles and jackals from Matt Kvesic for <a href="https://twitter.com/EnglandRugby">@EnglandRugby</a> against the Crusaders. Impact.</p>&mdash; OptaJason (@OptaJason) <a href="https://twitter.com/OptaJason/statuses/479106264337616897">June 18, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I counted 17 tackles and 3 turnovers. I can see which turnover opta decided not to include, as the result was that a penalty was awarded against him (incorrectly).

In the first test in Argentina England said he made 29 tackles whereas opta said he made 20.

 

[big ginger 8]

Assist tackles?