[2014 TRC] South Africa v Argentina in Pretoria (16/08/2014)

[Jaguares]

well I like that Argentina still has the Rugby culture running quite strong. Last summer was very positive for Argentina, having Six Nation winners Ireland visiting and they didn't bring a bad team, the Pumas B really stood up to them, showed aggressiveness and physicality in the rucks, put good sequences together, scored tries in that 2-test series (4 to IRE's 5), really didn't just roll over. So I'm saying even without their Top 14/Prem/major league players, they've got a nucleus of talent and know-how that can hold its own.

This one was awesome:

Montero is a player with many shortcomings, specifically on defense. But he has been supported by ALL the UAR's staff because by our genetics, we have very few backs with more than 100 kgs with the ability to play on the wing, then the UAR placed much emphasis on him, even though there were more talented wingers but with less size.

I don't want to be negative even if the lose is just in front of us.

Us??? Are you Mexican or what?

 

[Jaguares]

Sorry, delete this message please.

 

[djwizard84]

Us??? Are you Mexican or what?

Us in terms of the same continent and supporting Argentina as the only t1 nation in this area.
Perhaps in a couple of decades Mexico will be a t2 nation and still then I will support Argentina at the RC.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Just watched the 4 previous tests against these sides. It's simply amazing just how much home advatage seems to mean in this particular match up. Over the last five games the three wins for SA in SA has been by an average 45 point margin while the two away (1 draw) averages a mere 2.5 points in our favour (should be 1) and we were lucky that 2nd test!

 

[Big Ewis]

^ it is insane, isn't it. You'd almost think these are two Top 14 teams !...

 

[Guilty]

I don't think I am saying anything new here but I've got the Boks by 30+ points at the very least come full time. Like many of the above, I see the Boks as better than 2013 and the Pumas worse than last year.

Kind of crazy how under the radar the Spingboks are flying at the moment - at least in Australia and New Zealand...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

We have IMO, even with some injuries, a better squad than last year. Just last year we had Kirchner at 15, Engelbrecht at 13, Kruger and Flip van der Merwe our 2nd locks and no real back-up for Jannie de Beer at 3 (who had leaked 1 try in every bloody game last year and just overall put the team under pressure with his missed tackles) other than Oosthuizen who on the other hand is a liability in the scrum.

No FdP is a bit of a problem though but I expect us to be a better team regardless.

With the Wallabies also seemingly on the up (they've coped with weakish front rows before and I expect they will this comp as well), NZ being NZ and Argentina- that hungry dark horse- looking to spoil I can't wait for this tournament to get under way!

 

[Big Ewis]

same here, very eager for this. Finally some Rugby, and test Rugby. It's finally here...as an outsider, I totally agree with the 'the Boks are stronger even in spite of injuries' notion. They're much more cohesive, clinical and just overall are a better team. Their attacking is a whole lot better too. Coach really played his cards right.
And yeah FdP out is a handicap. But he's not eternal and soon the Boks will have to do without him.

And just because Argentina showed such incredible resilience last year, getting PULVERIZED to micropieces and then almost winning games, against all SANZAR nations; they seem to just always have hidden resources, I think they'll be impressive once again this year. They'll have at least a couple of good games I bet, although the difference is both the Wallabies and Boks weren't nearly the sides they are today, back in both 2012 and 2013...considerable, considerable difference.
We'll see; I vote for: Pumas will have a good couple of games. Though surely not this one.

 

[Jaguares]

We have IMO, even with some injuries, a better squad than last year. Just last year we had Kirchner at 15, Engelbrecht at 13, Kruger and Flip van der Merwe our 2nd locks and no real back-up for Jannie de Beer at 3 (who had leaked 1 try in every bloody game last year and just overall put the team under pressure with his missed tackles) other than Oosthuizen who on the other hand is a liability in the scrum.

No FdP is a bit of a problem though but I expect us to be a better team regardless.

With the Wallabies also seemingly on the up (they've coped with weakish front rows before and I expect they will this comp as well), NZ being NZ and Argentina- that hungry dark horse- looking to spoil I can't wait for this tournament to get under way!

I'm not sure, mate. I think Wallabies will beat Boks in Perth this year.

My ranking for this year:

1- All Blacks
2- Wallabies
3- Springboks
4- Pumas

 

[TRF_heineken]

I'm not sure, mate. I think Wallabies will beat Boks in Perth this year.

My ranking for this year:

1- All Blacks
2- Wallabies
3- Springboks
4- Pumas

Maybe, but I don't think the Wallabies will beat the Boks in SA.

I think the rankings will remain the same as last year. Just even more closer.

And the news from the Bok-camp is that all 31 players in the squad are fully fit. This excludes Victor Matfield as he has been removed from the squad and replaced by Juan Smith.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I'm not sure, mate. I think Wallabies will beat Boks in Perth this year.

My ranking for this year:

1- All Blacks
2- Wallabies
3- Springboks
4- Pumas

They could well beat us in Perth but I fully expect us to finish higher overall. I truly don't think they are suddenly no.2 in the world. The only indicator you could have for that is SR which has in the past proven a poor gauge. I would argue that despite England occupying the no.4 slot on the IRB world rankings I'd say;

1 NZ
2 SA
3 England
4 Aus

Though my personal rating of England is of course irrelevant for the purposes of this competition.

Care to put a wager on the Wallabies finishing 2nd though?

 

[RoosTah]

They could well beat us in Perth but I fully expect us to finish higher overall. I truly don't think they are suddenly no.2 in the world. The only indicator you could have for that is SR which has in the past proven a poor gauge. I would argue that despite England occupying the no.4 slot on the IRB world rankings I'd say;

1 NZ
2 SA
3 England
4 Aus

Though my personal rating of England is of course irrelevant for the purposes of this competition.

Care to put a wager on the Wallabies finishing 2nd though?

Are you really that impressed with England? They looked like they were going to give the All Blacks a mighty fright there to start off with I'll grant you, but in that final test they folded like a pack of cards and showed absolutely no ability to shift gears when things went against them.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

But that's exactly it; they gave the ABs a run there at home recently. They've also been the last team to actually win them and the only team to beat them post 2011. Surely that counts for something? Nobody would've been able to hold in to that 3rd test IMO; that was just an absolute masterclass of rugby right there.

On topic again, I expect SA will release our match day line-up on Wednesday as per usual. Does anyone know when we can expect the Puma's line-up?

 

[RoosTah]

But that's exactly it; they gave the ABs a run there at home recently. They've also been the last team to actually win them and the only team to beat them post 2011. Surely that counts for something? Nobody would've been able to hold in to that 3rd test IMO; that was just an absolute masterclass of rugby right there.

2012 is a long time now, and frankly their loss to a rather ordinary French team last year probably counts for more at this stage.

People talk about Australia being inconsistent, but England are hardly bastions of it - the year they upset the All Blacks they were also humiliated by Wales, so I wouldn't be rushing to give them a ranking of third on the ladder - particularly given Ireland are the current 6N champs and pushed the All Blacks closer than any team have in the last year.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Fair enough and I suppose it is very much a case of paper>rock>scossors and teams matching up against each other differently rather than an actual linear ranking as such.

That said you asked me whether I was impressed enough with England to rank them higher than Aus and I am. That is just my personal perception though I'd be the first one to admit I have a tendency to underestimate Aus which I expect is a product of my placing a lot of value on the tight five.

 

[RoosTah]

Fair enough and I suppose it is very much a case of paper>rock>scossors and teams matching up against each other differently rather than an actual linear ranking as such.

That said you asked me whether I was impressed enough with England to rank them higher than Aus and I am. That is just my personal perception though I'd be the first one to admit I have a tendency to underestimate Aus which I expect is a product of my placing a lot of value on the tight five.

I take exception to it obviously because I'm an Australian, but also because I felt we really outplayed the poms last year only to be fussed by a bum call.

You're right that it's not linear though. I don't rate the poms as a chance against South Africa because their game is similar but inferior to yours. But I reckon the Wallabies are a shot against both because we play a very different style.

 

[goodNumber10]

I think the true rankings are a bit of an unknown really, England went ok in NZ but the whole tour was always going to be a shambles due to the itinerary, so we didn't really learnt hat much from it other than we can live with them for prolonged periods of a game.

I think we'll get a better understanding of where England are in November, i think before that it's a massive unknown on how much progress they may or may not have made.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I don't think we are anyone REALLY disagreeing and think we can all agree the differences are tiny and so personal considerations are going to come into play in our irrelevant discussions off the field and a lucky break / poor call / bounce of the ball will make the difference on field?

 

[Jaguares]

Horacio Agulla is doubtful for the game: Agulla suffered a sprained in his collarbone. Lucas González Amorosino looms as the main alternative.

This year we lost our most experienced wingers: Gonzalo Camacho, Imhoff and Agulla. With Montero and Gonzalez Amorosino we don't have good defense at the wings, we are lost.

Boks by + 40

 

[nickdnz]

Haven't been able to find the Argentina squad for this championship. Any idea if Santiago Cordero is in the team? I like the look of him, even if he's a bit small.