[2015 RWC] Pool A: England vs. Wales (26/09/2015)

[Harry Stottle]

Instead of blaming the ref's can we take a look at your own teams performances. All I saw was killing the ball, not releasing, not rolling away, wheeling the scrum, crooked line outs. You guys are mad if you think the ref should let the game continue. It's your own fault and indiscipline that cost you the game. Christ, then you have the nerve to call the Ab's cheats when we play the best running Rugby in the world, such hypocrisy.

I was talking about the game en-bloc not just England, far to many stoppages, and if you want to see the best running rugby have a look at the team you take your non de plume from.

 

[ncurd]

Harry your completely wrong from what I remember of the match and my brain is doing its absolute best to erase it from memory the ref didn't get much wrong.

17 missed tackles, 8 turnovers conceded. Look at the team performance rather than someone else's.

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I was talking about the game en-bloc not just England, far to many stoppages, and if you want to see the best running rugby have a look at the team you take your non de plume from.

Do you think that England team was build for running rugby? Really?

 

[McTallshort]

Not watching the game next week. Going fishing on the east coast. Well done Wales truly great performance

 

[Harry Stottle]

Whenever the camera panned to the England coaches, even with his own son being so prominent in the game Andy Farrell looked totally bored with what he was watching.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

So Lancaster, how does your plan of having no breakdown specialist look as we again get bummed in the breakdown? How was it a good idea to scrap all the creative rugby we have in favour of the last creative centres in rugby? To have all the resources of England lose against a Welsh side with so many injuries a forward had to play in the backs is unacceptable.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

Systemic stupidity

Firstly, in order to avoid a "what about our performance" from the Welsh contingent. Simply magnificent and contrary to what appears to be the prevailing wisdom I thought a good chunk of the second half you were dominant in both territory and possession. The writing was on the wall well before it finally went ***s up.

Also, sport is just that. You can't just expect to win all the time. I am bitterly disappointed but I'll live. England however will not progress beyond the group. The Aussie back row will win infinity ball and their backs are good enough to profit.

All that said. Lancaster has some hard questions to answer. I believe I unfortunately predicted this. George Ford requires clever running centres to make his style of play work. Or at least an international centre to pass to ffs. Bringing him on to shut the game down with the personnel available was simply moronic.it's not Ford's fault.

 

[smartcooky]

The concept of Rugby should be running, passing and tackling not stopping the game for what seems to be no apparent reason, the most prominent man on the pitch and the one who (seems to want to be in) the limelight most is the referee.

What a load of utter tosh.

Garces was excellent in this game, and it was made very easy for him with both teams showing a complete lack of discipline.

 

[ncurd]

All that said. Lancaster has some hard questions to answer. I believe I unfortunately predicted this. George Ford requires clever running centres to make his style of play work. Or at least an international centre to pass to ffs. Bringing him on to shut the game down with the personnel available was simply moronic.it's not Ford's fault.

This is I can't understand the concept as a closer when you 10 points ahead. He's not the guy you use to steady the ship. Impact sub sure in game where your loosing. But time finish it off no.

I blame myself I said something like "we should still win this" just before the Welsh try....damn my English arrogance.

 

[MrTea_32]

I do think it has long been recognized that Barritt has been included principally for organizing the defense! I think this is probably the first time that I have heard that Burgess may have had that job!! Strange considering his, against Barritt's, experience in league?

I have already remarked that it was a bad call by Barritt that led to the rush defense which dog legged and allowed the Welsh try. I did caveat that by saying Watson contributed by stepping in to tackle the centre leaving his wing a clear run!

Watson was clearly 10 yards behind the rest of the line as it rushed but still could have tackled the wing if he had been able and not stepped inside for the covered centre!

I did not see Burgess do anything other than be penalized and maybe Lancaster agreed and why he took him off?



Do not hate Burgess!! I just feel he proved not to be the ideal player at centre and this is also the view of his club!!

I have supported Lancaster whilst many have criticized him. This was on basis that he knows his players and the game! This match proves he does not know them as well as he should and also that he played the wrong people prior to picking the squad!

If England does not have better backs players than Burgess, and 12trees then they do not deserve to qualify!

One other thing, who did make the call to kick to touch rather than goal? Ford, as has been said here, or Robshaw the captain and scrum leader? If the former why did Robshaw not interfere especially after the debacle a few years ago?

I agree with Burgess playing at 12 only a handful of times then been moved to 6 for Bath then he's stsrting at 12 for England is ridiculous and we have great centres like one of the best 12's of the premiership last season in Eastmond but Lancaster didn't give him a chance and carried on with twelvetrees etc, we have the players but there not picked.
But my.point with burgess is he may not have the experience of an international 12 but he did a good job didn't make to many mistakes and kept Roberts quiet, he was a rock in our defence and when taken off Roberts and Co came alive when attacking.
I just don't agree with what you said about how he shouldn't be picked anymore.
Alot of time debating the England centres could have been saved if Manu was fit because I don't think SL would have banned him if he was

 

[smartcooky]

White 6 ought to be cited for kicking Red 15?

He flailed in with his right boot in the vicinity of heads and copped Red 15 on the side of the head. Red 15 had to be stretchered off.


ETA:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=BbDDdSGqV0c#t=4694

watch at 1:18:25

There was no good reason for him to lash out with the boot, the ball was nowhere near. At the very least it was reckless!

 

[The Jones Boy]

Dragging Burgess was a massive mistake. Taking out massive defender and putting in a matchstick.
Big error.
Even then wgt was Barritt doing rushing the Wrlsh line?
Slide defence and shut down the clock.
Then what was Robshaw doing spurning the kick at goal from the 22 with Farrell at 100% all night??
Idiocy.
Game thrown away, Gatland dancing at Lancasters mistake to follow a premeditated substitution plan without reading the game.
Abdy Farrell is as much to blame.

 

[Wendigo7]

Dragging Burgess was a massive mistake. Taking out massive defender and putting in a matchstick.
Big error.
Even then wgt was Barritt doing rushing the Wrlsh line?
Slide defence and shut down the clock.
Then what was Robshaw doing spurning the kick at goal from the 22 with Farrell at 100% all night??
Idiocy.
Game thrown away, Gatland dancing at Lancasters mistake to follow a premeditated substitution plan without reading the game.
Abdy Farrell is as much to blame.

We were struggling way before that.

 

[ncurd]

White 6 ought to be cited for kicking Red 15?

He flailed in with his right boot in the vicinity of heads and copped Red 15 on the side of the head. Red 15 had to be stretchered off.


ETA:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=BbDDdSGqV0c#t=4694

watch at 1:18:25

There was no good reason for him to lash out with the boot, the ball was nowhere near. At the very least it was reckless!

Took me a couple of watches to see it....ummm to be honest I think the slow motion make it look worse and he's just following through with the momentum he has to the vicinity where the ball just was.

That all said he connects with the head and should at least go through the citing process. If it ends with a LE ban I don't think he can be too aggrieved. .

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We were struggling way before that.

Jones Boy hasa major stiffy for Burgess. I'm not sure how many people see what he sees.

I certainly don't he's a 6 playing at 12.

 

[Wendigo7]

The idea that Ford is to blame is hilarious. Robshaw had an interview and said he made the call and tried to change it.

It's 2012 all over again.

Ford wasn't the problem either, the 2 centres were utterly knackered and were so off the pace all game. Burgess and Farrell defended well, add Farrell's goals, but that literally is all they do. They offered absolutely nothing in attack, nothing. Combined with Barritt being a non entity, the game was lost when Lancaster picked the negative selection to be honest.

 

[goodNumber10]

hello, couple of observations form last night.

1: it was an immense game, intensity was insane - I'm worried about the emotional toll on both teams ahead of Ausssies & Fiji.
2: I said against Ireland in the warm up games the Welsh fitness was incredible, and we saw it again last night.
3: Ford for Burgess was a bad call, it changed the game in a negative way for England - it should have been Ford for Farrell, or not at all. Burgess was good, bar a crappy kick.
4: Robshaws call to kick for the corner was the RIGHT call, win the game and England are through, Draw left them in almost the same position as a loss, but with a chance to go through on the 2012 rankings (sod that).
5: I knew we'd (England) had lost when Mike Brown lost his temper and fronted up to Warburton - knew emotion had taken over too much at that stage.

Great win for Wales, congrats lads, really great performance in a massive game. Super from the pack to get back into the game, difficult for them to back it up against Fiji with all the injuries, will be interesting to see how this pool pans out.

lastly nothing in the Wood/Williams connection, hacking a loose ball clumsily if he gets cited he'll get cleared.

laters

 

[ncurd]

On point number 4 I disagree there was still 2-3 minutes left on the clock after the kick would of been taken. Plenty of time to try to win another penalty plus Wales wouldn't of shut up shop settling for a draw.

Point being there was still time to kick the points and win the game.

Agree about the pool situation that would a rubbish way to go through.

 

[goodNumber10]

On point number 4 I disagree there was still 2-3 minutes left on the clock after the kick would of been taken. Plenty of time to try to win another penalty plus Wales wouldn't of shut up shop settling for a draw.

Point being there was still time to kick the points and win the game.

Agree about the pool situation that would a rubbish way to go through.

and if he misses the kick wales have possession, kick long England go back into defensive zone have to work length of pitch, it they kick the goal England go back ino defensive zone and Wales attack.

It was the better risk, with 4 minutes to go even with the missed line out England can assert pressure in Wales Red zone, as demonstrated by England getting an attacking scrum they then botched.

The kick for the corner wasn't a poor call, the line out and scrum execution were the issue.

Also last point, on the Welsh try, where the hell was Jonny May? why was he not sweeping? Wigglesworth was left with an impossible task.

 

[Kiwi_]

and if he misses the kick wales have possession, kick long England go back into defensive zone have to work length of pitch, it they kick the goal England go back ino defensive zone and Wales attack.

It was the better risk, with 4 minutes to go even with the missed line out England can assert pressure in Wales Red zone, as demonstrated by England getting an attacking scrum they then botched.

The kick for the corner wasn't a poor call, the line out and scrum execution were the issue.

Yeah, I actually thought that was a good call from Robshaw, I appreciated it, good attitude. Gats said after the game Wales were used to England attacking from the front of the line out, so the predictability was a big issue there, needed something up the sleeve for a moment like that, a Richie McCaw moment.

 

[msf]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...inkable-defeat-becomes-daunting-a6668721.html

I feel the way England played has been reflected in the quality of the journalism covering it.

Ah yes, when Ben Burgess listened to the Rolling Stones´Pump Me Up at the beginning of the game, all seemed well...

 

[Ospreylian]

Ok I've had a night to sleep on it and let the adrenaline settle.

What an amazing game. Bad luck to all you England supporters, it was the most back and forth game I've seen for some time. The spirit of that Welsh team to scrape through was superb, I've never witnessed something like that as a Welsh fan after years of the team just losing hope and letting go in the dying seconds of games. The best moment of the game for me was Wales driving the English maul off the park on their own 5 metre line (I went a little bit mental when that happened). Part of me thinks the pain of all those close defeats and last minute heart break in recent years in some way contributed to the sheer determination of every single player in those final minutes.

Lloyd Williams should make wing his official position, he played better there than I've ever see him at scrum half. That kick through was a stroke of genius. Lydiate justified his selection in my eyes, he made the most tackles of any player on the field with 15, and it was his work rate that cut players like Vunipola completely out of the game. You could tell Wales had done their homework on Vunipola, he seemed to get tackled round the ankles every time he laid fingers on the ball.

Dan Biggar is our most important player in my eyes. I think if he were to get injured we wouldn't have a hope. Every time he had his hands on the ball last night you got the feeling he could create something or something could happen in attack. Fair play to him for nailing that 50 metre kick, I really didn't think he could stretch that far.

As for England, they seemed to establish a firm game plan in the first half, and then chuck it out of the window in the second. They were dominating in the scrum, line out and territory game but chose to ignore those areas. May's try was brilliantly executed with the dummy runners, but they did little of the same from that moment on. Burgess and Farrell put in solid enough performances but didn't set the world alight. Ford should easily have started, and I think Lancaster will be regretting that for some time to come. And the decision to take Youngs off was absolutely absurd (someone correct me if he was in fact injured), he was by far England's best back in the first half. The same goes for the decision not to take the points at the end. If it were Wales, I would have been screaming for the draw having witnessed such an unbelievably tight game.