[2015 TRC] Argentina v Australia in Mendoza (25/07/2015)

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Not being able to play better opposition regularly in the past certainly hurt them, but their performances since them proved those right who weren't too keen on expansion.

Nah, that's no proof, particularly the first championships.
Everyone in Argentina knew that after the 3rd place in the world cup the generational change in the team would hurt them (our best generation). They were well aware of that when they joined the TRC. Although i do agree it doesn't do wonders for the short term self esteem, from the realistic available options we've got, it is the best one, particularly in the long run.

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Not every post.
5 at the most.
Proof? Ok the Lasers? The Flops? Everyone has seen the games

Ok mr nitpicker, not all, just 5. You win.

Couldn't help noticing you scrutinize opposition's mistakes yet you conveniently forget to mention Australia's. Quite the conundrum.

 

[General Tah]

Nah, that's no proof, particularly the first championships.
Everyone in Argentina knew that after the 3rd place in the world cup the generational change in the team would hurt them (our best generation). They were well aware of that when they joined the TRC. Although i do agree it doesn't do wonders for the short term self esteem, from the realistic available options we've got, it is the best one, particularly in the long run.

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Ok mr nitpicker, not all, just 5. You win.

Couldn't help noticing you scrutinize opposition's mistakes yet you conveniently forget to mention Australia's. Quite the conundrum.

No not mistakes, Wallabies make plenty, but cheating.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

No not mistakes, Wallabies make plenty, but cheating.

Well, then define cheating for me, because it appears you have a very particular definition.

When Pocock blocks Sanchez from trying to make a tackle (he probably would have missed, granted, but that is not the point) in the first try, that's ok in your book i assume, since you conveniently failed to mention it.

Are those double standards an australian thing or is it just you?

 

[General Tah]

Well, then define cheating for me, because it appears you have a very particular definition.

When Pocock blocks Sanchez from trying to make a tackle (he probably would have missed, granted, but that is not the point) in the first try, that's ok in your book i assume, since you conveniently failed to mention it.

Are those double standards an australian thing or is it just you?

You mean when the dope ran into him trying to get a penalty like the half dozen flops.

I know its hard for you south americans but this isnt soccer. Flopping and diving isnt a good thing.

 

[Kiwi_]

Every All Black match I've watched vs Argentina has been a fair and honest contest, never once did the word cheat come into my head while playing the Argies.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

So basically, yes, you forgot to mention Pocock's. Hence my point.

I know its hard for you south americans but this isnt soccer. Flopping and diving isnt a good thing.

Ohh, the hasty generalization game. Never seen that one before.
I honestly have a hard time coming up with a witty comeback. I mean, Australian's are flawless.

 

[RoosTah]

Every All Black match I've watched vs Argentina has been a fair and honest contest, never once did the word cheat come into my head while playing the Argies.

I think P.Tah is being a bit rough - I don't see them as cheats, but they definitely milk those penalties. I hate Cooper, but his YC was the sort of "tackle" you'd see 1000 times every weekend in the NRL without a player ever flinching - let alone falling over like he'd been shot.

 

[The big Kangaroo]

I think most people who have played rugby would of done what Pocock did before. It was the right decision from the referee imo

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The 6N has no interest in expanding currently - the "they're scared" ******** from anyone who wants in is very tiresome.

Anyone see Hooper's punch on Camacho?

Just saw a replay of it do you think it well be reviewed? would not be good to lose him through suspension.

edit: just read that he got cited. hopefully he gets off Its hard to tell if its a closed or open hand especially when some wind could of knocked over some of the players in the pumas during the game. Im not a big hooper fan but he was held back so you can understand why he was frustrated.

 

[Horacito]

Every time Argentina is going through a rough patch are we going to suffer the morons who think we shouldn't be playing RC? So boring.

I am actually not that devastated over the match. The line ups and scrum have improved over a week, we had a bit more of possesion, Camacho came back pefect, Moroni and Socino played great for their first RC championship, Desio and Isa also performed decently. Not Matera, not Leguizamón, most of them 21-22 year old lads, Cordero was quite good as well.

Bad side:

-there was no leader yesterday in the backs, all the time stupid choices because nobody had the maturity or inteligence to not to choose the rational option.
-a proof of this is the lack of discipline with the kids. Moroni and Cordero picking fights with Cooper, Phibbs and Folau. Who could pick a fight with Folau? You have to be idiotic.
-Sánchez is no leader, he's good to kick and pass and has a good sidestep, but you need more to be international flyhalf.
-There is too much difference in performance between backs and forwards.
-Ramiro Herrera is struggling to perform.

Yesterday, before the match, someone posted a picture with Agulla, Legui, Hernández, etc, all of the people prepared to play an international match of this level. That is because yesterday was taken as a preparation match to give this lads the opportunity to begin their international expirience, but probably is not a good idea. Can Argentina allow herself not to play with everything they have in every match? What if the WC does not go as expected?

As a side note: when lads play against childish man you get what happened yesterday with Cooper. He's just a moron.

Cheers

 

[ncurd]

Every time Argentina is going through a rough patch are we going to suffer the morons who think we shouldn't be playing RC?

Yes we get every year in 6N with Italy and to a lesser extent Scotland. Ignore them you earned your right to play yearly against the big boys.

On a tangential note it always made more sense for Arg to join the the tri as opposed 6N from a geographical standpoint. I think Europe genuinely said to off sod as to some extent it would officially classifying the 6N as a lower tier competition than the tri nations. That would then open another can of worms to what would Ire/Eng/Wal/Fra reactions as they'd rather play the SH teams than Sco/Ita/Arg.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I agree with most of what you're saying about the Pumas' performance, Horacito.

The backs don't seem to have a coherent gameplan, they just seem to have a crack at whatever they think of first.
Hopefully this will develop from their SR side.

 

[profitius]

Being included in these tournaments won't magically improve teams overnight. It'll take years for the effects to take place. Argentina are still new to this tournament and will realistically take a decade at least to start winning matches regularly.


People have to be more realistic. To get better, countries have to invest in the grassroots and be patient.

 

[Jaguares]

The 6N has no interest in expanding currently - the "they're scared" ******** from anyone who wants in is very tiresome.

Anyone see Hooper's punch on Camacho?

Perhaps fear is exaggerated. Let's say England, Ireland, France and Wales prefer to keep their easy victories against Scotland and especially against Italy.

Argentina would be a tougher opponent than Italy and Scotland

 

[ncurd]

Perhaps fear is exaggerated. Let's say England, Ireland, France and Wales prefer to keep their easy victories against Scotland and especially against Italy.

Argentina would be a tougher opponent than Italy and Scotland

I don't think they do, to be honest if wasn't for tradition of keeping Scotland and the 'balance' to the schedule Italy brings they'd probably jettison both for a tougher competition.

 

[Jaguares]

Being included in these tournaments won't magically improve teams overnight. It'll take years for the effects to take place. Argentina are still new to this tournament and will realistically take a decade at least to start winning matches regularly.

People have to be more realistic. To get better, countries have to invest in the grassroots and be patient.

I agree, mate. That's the way, it will be looooong and haaaaard, nobody said it was easy. What is filling my patience is the Soccer Media and the soccer supporters here. They hate rugby and hate our national rugby team, they celebrate ALL the Pumas defeats. They are like the blacks in SA during the apartheid, they supported the ABs and Wallabies against Boks. It's hard to stay calm in that situation

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Yeh nothing to do with distance or cost as well.

Or time zones.

 

[Jaguares]

Yeh nothing to do with distance or cost as well.

Or time zones.

There is more time difference between Argentina and AUS/NZ than UK and Argentina and yet TRC works

 

[Peat]

Every time Argentina is going through a rough patch are we going to suffer the morons who think we shouldn't be playing RC? So boring.

I'm not going to say that. I just wish your entry had been timed for when you had a team strong enough to be competing i.e. before this point. Hopefully in time this will accelerate your rebuilding of a team that good.

Expanding rugby's competitions seems to be a big topic of conversation at the moment. What I take away from the experiences of Argentina and Italy is you need to strike when the iron is hot rather than waiting for the generation to prove it all and fade away.

 

[ratsapprentice]

There is more time difference between Argentina and AUS/NZ than UK and Argentina and yet TRC works

Nowhere near as well as the 6N.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Nowhere near as well as the 6N.

I know the SH countries are use to time difference between each other through test and super rugby.

Europe is perfect for the time zone as a group and costs to travel is more suitable.

 

[psychic duck]

I'm not going to say that. I just wish your entry had been timed for when you had a team strong enough to be competing i.e. before this point. Hopefully in time this will accelerate your rebuilding of a team that good.

Expanding rugby's competitions seems to be a big topic of conversation at the moment. What I take away from the experiences of Argentina and Italy is you need to strike when the iron is hot rather than waiting for the generation to prove it all and fade away.

Both teams spent their peak years having to be forced to prove it rather than in the Championship. The same thing happens, and will always happens as long as there is no system that reacts to and can enact change quicker. This is not possible when any potential new side would have to go through years of 6N/SANZAR blazers debating it, followed by a wait as much of the 6N or RC is scheduled 2 years in advance.

Argentina started lobbying hard around 2002ish, reach an all time high in 2005-07 and finally told they'll be allowed in .... but in 4 years time.

 

[Horacito]

Seems nobody wants to put this here:



The youngest captain in the history of the Wallabies.

 

[RoosTah]

Seems nobody wants to put this here:



The youngest captain in the history of the Wallabies.

Supposedly Cheika isn't worried about this because they have another angle showing Sanchez pulling him back by his collar (professional foul and yellow card) and then the actual "punch" not even making contact. Apparently this was a classic dive - surprise surprise.

 

[Horacito]

Wow.

So that was diving, and the movement of his head is just acting.

This southamericans with their football habits.

 

[RoosTah]

Wow.

So that was diving, and the movement of his head is just acting.

This southamericans with their football habits.

The motion of the head I believe is called "flinching" - but we'll soon see either way. As I said, Cheika apparently isn't at all concerned due to the other camera angle, and let's face it Sanchez has a history of histrionics.

It'll be interesting to see what happens - if Cheika is right then Sanchez might be the one to get banned for both the professional foul AND the dive.

 

[smartcooky]

I'm not going to say that. I just wish your entry had been timed for when you had a team strong enough to be competing i.e. before this point. Hopefully in time this will accelerate your rebuilding of a team that good.

Expanding rugby's competitions seems to be a big topic of conversation at the moment. What I take away from the experiences of Argentina and Italy is you need to strike when the iron is hot rather than waiting for the generation to prove it all and fade away.

THIS IN SPADES!

The time to have gotten Argentina involved in SANZAR was when they were third in the world and finished third at the 2007 RWC. Instead, the suits at SANZAR sat on their hands or twiddled their thumbs for five years while all the the players who had made Argentina strong like the Contepomi brothers, Pichot, Roncero, Ledesma, Albecete, Corleto, Borges, the older Fernandez-Lobbe brother and Todeschini retired or had gone past their best.

As a result, their international match exposure to top opposition became limited, playing only six matches each year as compared with the top nations playing 13-15 matches each year. Argentina lost ground and free-fell down the rankings.

IMO, had the Rugby Championship started in 2008 instead of 2012, I'm sure we would already be looking at a couple of Argentine based teams in Super Rugby and a much improved Pumas team.

 

[Horacito]

Yeah, Sánchez is a flopper.

Actually, I could actually be interested in seeing what Hourcade pulles off, Hernández? I would choose somebody else just to see the options pre-world cup.

 

[Kiwi_]

 

[General Tah]

Kiwis can have him back. Please.

 

[The big Kangaroo]

It is possible Quade is talking about criticism from fans and journalists.