Great game Argentina. It's alsway nice to see a rugby nation on the rise. I was worried that they will not be competitive enough and eventually be excluded from the The Rugby Championship, but luckily they proved us all wrong. As for the Springboks, shape up or cancel your trip to the world cup to avoid further embarrassment.
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[2015 TRC] South Africa v Argentina in Durban (08/08/2015)
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The Soccer Media and soccer supporters are missing. They only appear when the team loses to criticize. Now they are hiding in their caves. They are crap, too soft to play rugby
Argentina only beat South Africa once in 1982 with another name: "South America XV". It's like the South Americans Barbarians. The squad is composed of players from Argentina, Uruguay, Chile and Paraguay. Because these nations are weak in rugby, the starting XV is almost 100% a Pumas team.
With the Pumas name we never beat them, with the "South America XV" name we beat them once in 1982. The score was 21-12, all the points of South America XV were made by Hugo Porta. The South America XV squad had 30 Argie players and some Uruguayans, Chileans and Paraguayans. Technically the Pumas beat South Africa using another name
Pretoria? Gregan? What are u talking about?
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marianodan
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There was another non-test match victory, You're forgetting about Buenos Aires beating them back in 1993: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_South_Africa_rugby_union_tour_of_Argentina
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Well technically, that is correct.
However, in 1982, the South American Jaguars toured South Africa, and they were Los Pumas in everything but name. While it was privately endorsed by the UAR (the team played in jerseys with the Pumas logo as part of the Jaguars emblem), the tour was not "officially recognized" so that they could circumvent the Argentine government's prohibition, due to apartheid, on sporting ties with South Africa. The Argentine Government were furious, and in 1984, they forced the UAR forbid the use of the Pumas emblem on any future tours.
The touring party was mostly Pumas players and while it included a few Brazilian, Chilean, Paraguayan and Uruguayan players, none of them played in the two tests against the Springboks.
[TABLE="class: wikitable, width: 80%"]
[TR]
[TH]Date[/TH]
[TH]Venue[/TH]
[TH]Home[/TH]
[TH]Score[/TH]
[TH]Away[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TR]
[TD]27 March 1982[/TD]
[TD]Loftus Versfeld Stadium[/TD]
[TD]South Africa[/TD]
[TD]50 - 18[/TD]
[TD]South American Jaguars[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3 April 1982[/TD]
[TD]Free State Stadium[/TD]
[TD]South Africa[/TD]
[TD]12 - 21[/TD]
[TD]South American Jaguars[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
The Jaguars won the second test, and here is some footage which I am pretty sure is from that match as you can a see a running track around the pitch. The old Free State stadium definitely had a running track back then, but I don't think Loftus ever had one.
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austingtir
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Just watched most of this match. Really surprising just how good most of the Arg backs were and how terrible SA was as a group.
In the game against NZ you could see Creevy after an all black try really getting into his backs about their rubbish performance. Looks like he might of finally got through to them.
In the game against NZ you could see Creevy after an all black try really getting into his backs about their rubbish performance. Looks like he might of finally got through to them.
chikwa chibwe
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I didn't watch the game but I cannot for the life of me understand,Imagine or conceive how the boks lost at home to the PUMA's.
Shocking is perhaps an understatement.
The Boks have played 3& lost 3.
Only last week their coach was saying that once they can make the right decisions in their attacking play they will be unstoppable .
A critical examination is required . After their game against the all blacks the press and their coaching staff felt they were the better team . Blaming the loss on uncontested scrums.i disagree .By way of example they had a contested scrum on the AB's 5 metre line that was 8 vs 7 . The ball was turned over in a tackle .
If any team has the mental fortitude to come back it is the boks .
Shocking is perhaps an understatement.
The Boks have played 3& lost 3.
Only last week their coach was saying that once they can make the right decisions in their attacking play they will be unstoppable .
A critical examination is required . After their game against the all blacks the press and their coaching staff felt they were the better team . Blaming the loss on uncontested scrums.i disagree .By way of example they had a contested scrum on the AB's 5 metre line that was 8 vs 7 . The ball was turned over in a tackle .
If any team has the mental fortitude to come back it is the boks .
Well, the biggest issues for the Boks are:
Ruan Pienaar. While I have always been a huge fan of him, he just doesn't have what it takes to win at international level against SH teams. The style of play really shows his weakness. He is too slow off the ball and his recycling from the ruck doesn't cut it.
Handre Pollard. What has this boy ever done to deserve a call up? He was good for the Junior Boks at the u20 World Cup a few years back, but that's about it. It looks like yet another player who was selected mainly due to Meyer's familiarity with the Bulls style of play.
Which brings me to the 3rd and most important flaw. The game plan. When you have teams like the Lions, Cheetahs, Stormers and even the Sharks in previous years playing a freeflowing style of rugby, how is it possible we end up playing an outdated style that is based on kicking? The reason the Boks lose games, is because they are unable to switch to a different style of play. The team is a one-trick pony. When it works, things are looking great and the confidence is there to play with a bit more flair, but the moment it doesn't work out the team just tries it over and over and over again. That's the definition of being an idiot. Trying the same thing over and over and over again and expecting different results. This team is flawed in its gameplan and with the player management at the provincial level it seems it's not getting better any time soon. What needs to change?
- Change the way the players are divided among provincial teams at Currie Cup level. Look at the structure of the ITM Cup. Younger players will develop better when they play with experienced guys. Make it appealing for players to represent teams like SWD, Border etc. The emergence of the Pumas is a great example of how a team can be built. Second, get out of the comfort zone when it comes to squad selection. Too often we see the same players being picked again and again even though they perform awful at the international level. Players aren't picked on merit anymore. And stop selecting overseas players! If you cling to the players who moved to Europe, how are young players ever to develop at all? The lack of talent among the current Boks is the result of several mistakes made in the past. It's not just Meyer, but he is responsible.
Ruan Pienaar. While I have always been a huge fan of him, he just doesn't have what it takes to win at international level against SH teams. The style of play really shows his weakness. He is too slow off the ball and his recycling from the ruck doesn't cut it.
Handre Pollard. What has this boy ever done to deserve a call up? He was good for the Junior Boks at the u20 World Cup a few years back, but that's about it. It looks like yet another player who was selected mainly due to Meyer's familiarity with the Bulls style of play.
Which brings me to the 3rd and most important flaw. The game plan. When you have teams like the Lions, Cheetahs, Stormers and even the Sharks in previous years playing a freeflowing style of rugby, how is it possible we end up playing an outdated style that is based on kicking? The reason the Boks lose games, is because they are unable to switch to a different style of play. The team is a one-trick pony. When it works, things are looking great and the confidence is there to play with a bit more flair, but the moment it doesn't work out the team just tries it over and over and over again. That's the definition of being an idiot. Trying the same thing over and over and over again and expecting different results. This team is flawed in its gameplan and with the player management at the provincial level it seems it's not getting better any time soon. What needs to change?
- Change the way the players are divided among provincial teams at Currie Cup level. Look at the structure of the ITM Cup. Younger players will develop better when they play with experienced guys. Make it appealing for players to represent teams like SWD, Border etc. The emergence of the Pumas is a great example of how a team can be built. Second, get out of the comfort zone when it comes to squad selection. Too often we see the same players being picked again and again even though they perform awful at the international level. Players aren't picked on merit anymore. And stop selecting overseas players! If you cling to the players who moved to Europe, how are young players ever to develop at all? The lack of talent among the current Boks is the result of several mistakes made in the past. It's not just Meyer, but he is responsible.
A lot of this makes sense but I do disagree on Pollard. He was Super Rugby's top point scorer. He was largely responsible for the Boks win over the All Blacks last year. I think he offers more than Lambie. Not quite the finished article, but I'd glady take him for the ABs.
Pollard wasn't even the top point scorer in the SA conference. And out of all his points, 120 came from penalty kicks. Only Catrakilis (Stormers) had more penalty kicks. Pollard is a great kicker, but as a player distributing the ball he's just one-dimensional. It either works or it doesn't, but there is no plan B with him. He is still quite young, which means he can still improve but at the moment he is not the best fly-half in my opinion. We need versatile players. Players with a bit more creativity.
All credit to the Argies of course.
As for the Boks I've officially stopped believing we are going to win the world cup. Even if we manage to pull out a good performance or two, there is no way this team is capable of winning 7 games in a row.
We've managed to win 2 out of the last 7, so that just puts things in perspective, I will shout for us all the way, but I don't think I'll be crushed knowing we aren't the best team and don't deserve it.
The team has potential but there is something missing, and whatever it is it's serious, perhaps 2019 will be our year when our rookies have gotten some years on them.
As for the Boks I've officially stopped believing we are going to win the world cup. Even if we manage to pull out a good performance or two, there is no way this team is capable of winning 7 games in a row.
We've managed to win 2 out of the last 7, so that just puts things in perspective, I will shout for us all the way, but I don't think I'll be crushed knowing we aren't the best team and don't deserve it.
The team has potential but there is something missing, and whatever it is it's serious, perhaps 2019 will be our year when our rookies have gotten some years on them.
Nah, you change plans when the plan is flawed. This one just needs some tweaking. A tad of luck here and there and they could have easily won both first games.
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The Magician:
[video=dailymotion;x312vu2]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x312vu2_juan-martin-hernandez-se-la-pete-contre-les-springboks_sport[/video]
[video=dailymotion;x312vu2]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x312vu2_juan-martin-hernandez-se-la-pete-contre-les-springboks_sport[/video]
You mean when he dropped the ball or when he threw it wildly anywhere when he recovered it? He had a half decent game but and there were a couple of examples of what he was capable of but is so far away from the player he was that he would not get into most international teams now....
The Jones Boy
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Where is heineken?
Where are the regular saffer posters?
Conspicuous by their absence.
Where are the regular saffer posters?
Conspicuous by their absence.
Peat
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I'm a big believer that when a gameplan keeps bringing unlucky losses, something isn't right and it often needs a huge amount of work to make it that little bit better; the difference at the top comes from being a few per cent better or worse and getting even 1pc better when you're at the top takes a lot.
They were bad in the Autumn as well. Something about their set-up doesn't feel right to me at this moment.
Still, we can discount my JdV idea now...
Still, Hernández played a better match than Sánchez previous two... together.
He gave us the fourth try, the second try was all his doing (he escaped and recieved the high tackle from Burger, giving us the advantage) and his field kicking was as solid as allways.
Seriously not the best match to criticize him pal.
He gave us the fourth try, the second try was all his doing (he escaped and recieved the high tackle from Burger, giving us the advantage) and his field kicking was as solid as allways.
Seriously not the best match to criticize him pal.
Monday was a public holiday with good weather. Not one to spend behind a laptop.
Okay, onto the game I want to congratulate Argentina here again but this time without reservation.
I am still of the opninion Poite shouldn't ever ref a pro match again because he has no clue as to a number of the fundementals of the game but that is not the reason we lost as I said elsewhere as well, it just adds to the frustration and TBH I am more upset with the coaching staff as Poite's way of non-refereeing is not an unknown factor. Argentina were just up for this match and took advatage of the ref's 'style' while we were left rattled and floundering.
So much for JdV's expected steadying influence in defense and leadership. I still say taking him in while he is still not 100% was a mistake and sadly, will probably continue too be a mistake as I can't see Meyer dropping him for any reason. DdA/Kriel was one of the very few positives coming out of weeks 1 and 2. So much for that. Pienaar just doesn't add anything still.
It seems we still have the issue of not knowing what to do when opposition packs get parity or even dominance. But its difficult to complain overly much as we are spread thin there due to injury.
Here's hoping the guys can buck up for what will probably be a very determined Pumas side at home.
Has anybody picked up the reports that 5 black Bok players have apparently approached Cosatu with a complaint that the Bok team was all white at some point furing the weekend and they want to make a fuss.
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Here I am.
Let me start off with Poite and his refereeing squad. I thought they were terrible.
1. The first try by Argentina had 2 forward passes that went unseen.
2. The Scrums, I thought he was very one-eyed with his interpretation at the scrums. Video footage even supports that.
3. Cobus Reinach's try. He gave us the penalty, saw Cobus tap and go, and then reward the try. Only having the TMO to say that it wasn't on the line. Why award it in the first place when he, as the referee at first instance didn't see anything wrong with it??
4. The Paul Honiss Replication -try. It was Ireland all over again. 4 medics on the field, Poite with his back to the Springboks the whole time. There was even a medic on the field for Argentine right next to JMH when he took the tap. Poite even gave JDV the permission to talk to his guys. And then they score in the corner. It leaves a very sour taste in my mouth.
5. Habana's try. Talk about double standards. Poite yet again awards the try, Lambie is ready to take the kick, and then all of a sudden the TMO says he wants to have another look. Why did the TMO not go and have another look at the first Argentine try?? Why was only this try up for debate and not every other try??
6. The Offside line was non-existant in this match.
Ugh, it's irritating and frustrating to keep on ranting about the referee, but honestly, this will continue to happen, and we won't shut up about it until the correct steps are taken to make the game more enjoyable to watch where officiating will not be a factor.
/Rant over regarding Poite.
On the Springboks. We were terrible. Schalk Burger was poor for me, he made so many hospital passes that put us under tremendous pressure. Ruan Pienaar had an off game, his first of the year, and he gave our backs very poor delivery. Handre Pollard should not be too badly judged, he had very little first phase ball, and couldn't do much with it when he got it. I thought he did try to go alone himself too often.
The scrums were yet again a mess.
Congrats Argentina on your maiden win against South Africa. They played smarter than us and made less mistakes.
You missed the biggest one IMO; have a look at the game and focus on Argentine players going off their feet to seal their own ball and steal ours while not suporting their own weight. But we don't get the same laissez faire treatment at ruck time with Beast penalized for seasling when we were on the attack in their 22 and we get told many time to let go of the ball on the deck.
It just means one team can't get any momentum going at all.
... I reread this here and I don't wnat it to come across as excuses though I suppose it invariably is. Please read it as criticism of Poite and nothing further. I see Argentina as full value for their win I really do. They can only play whats in front of them and did so brilliantly. My frustration is with the ref's 'style' of refereeing, inconsistency in doing so and our inability to adapt and numerous unfrced errors none of which come from Argentina other than the pressure they put on us if that makes any sense.
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There was an inevitability for ARG to win. They have been knocking on the door the past few years, specifically against us, and they nearly did last year if it wasn't for Morne Steyn kicking a goal in injury time.
And we had 2 tough losses the previous 2 games too. Actually we have now lost our last 4 international games in a row. Some experiments work, and some didn't. Every year we have that odd off game, and I hope that it was just this. Argentina came out firing in that opening 30 minutes and scored the points while we were missing tackles and making mistakes. They got a big enough lead to just weather the storm in the second half. Something both teams can take back home in regard to preparation for the World Cup.
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The time has come for the Springbok management to stop tinkering and to pick the best 15.
Thats what Aussie have been doing and its working wonders for them
Thats what Aussie have been doing and its working wonders for them
Is it?
South Africa--->Argentina---->NZ
1. Slipper--->Slipper--->Sio
2. Moore--->Moore--->Moore
3. Kepu--->Homes--->Kepu
4. Skelton--->Skelton---Mumm
5. Simmons--->Simmons--->Horwill
6. Fardy--->Fardy--->Fardy
7. Hooper--->Pocock--->Hooper
8. Higginbotham--->McCalman--->Pocock
9. Genia--->Phipps--->Phipps
10. Cooper--->Foley--->Foley
11. Horne--->Tomane--->Mitchell
12. Giteau--->Toomua--->Giteau
13. Kuridrani--->Kuridrani--->Kuridrani
14. Ashley-Cooper--->Ashley-Cooper--->Ashley-Cooper
15. Folau--->Folau--->Folau
By in large that looks like a team which has changed a fair amount over this Rugby Championship. Don't know if I would put their success down to consistent selections.
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Why??
Every Saffa knew long before the RC even started that HM will use it to experiment for the WC. It's the only way to know who to pick and who is on form or not.
I'm not bothered by the losses, as it doesn't mean that much to me, sure I'd like us to win every game and lift the trophy, but the focus is on the World Cup. Injuries and other factors has made the life for HM very hard, but his head and heart is at the right place and I have confidence in him.
Every South African knew Meyer was going to tinker but we all don't like it. That said I do trust Meyer for the most part (relative to PdV) and most of his tinkering has paid off. So fair enough. That said I do disagree with the view that places the RWC title above every other test match. The reason being we went through some hell with PdV for the same reason and ran up against Lawrence in the QF and that was that- all that suffering and carrying guys way past it along for the sake of having a load of caps in the line-up and everything undone by a one-off ref performance from hell which is a distinct probability in any RWC knock out game. Rather try and win every test you get and build a culture of winning and that might just get you the RWC title in any case.
So while I understand Meyer has been dealt a ****ty hand WRT injuries making him unable to field anything other than 60% of our probable 'best XV' I am against the way he uses the bench for the only reason to give everyone a run and also hw he has shoved our best performing player in Kriel aside for De Villiers just like that to see how he goes where the likelier outcome was a poorer performance than keeping Kriel at 13, JdV on the bench (only as injury cover) and bring in Mapoe as an example.
So while I understand Meyer has been dealt a ****ty hand WRT injuries making him unable to field anything other than 60% of our probable 'best XV' I am against the way he uses the bench for the only reason to give everyone a run and also hw he has shoved our best performing player in Kriel aside for De Villiers just like that to see how he goes where the likelier outcome was a poorer performance than keeping Kriel at 13, JdV on the bench (only as injury cover) and bring in Mapoe as an example.
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Is Mapoe likely to come in now JDV is injured again?
I've barely seen him at all - would be potentially be a better pick than Kriel at OC?
I've barely seen him at all - would be potentially be a better pick than Kriel at OC?
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