[2017 Rugby Championship] Round 4: New Zealand v South Africa (16/09/2017)

[TRF_heineken]

Both teams have been announced and added to the OP.

Springboks with only 3 changes to the starting 15. Ruan Dreyer comes in at 3 in place of Coenie Oosthuizen, Franco Mostert returns in place of PSDT, who will take a spot on the bench but as a loose forward replacement, and Jean-Luc Du Preez comes in at 7 in place of Jaco Kriel.

No other changes. Makes me think that we'll be getting a hiding...

 

[unrated]

Our lock Pstd is the only cover we have for 6,7,8 on the bench. Come on AC we needed a good flanker to come on in the Second half when NZ are traditionally strong. He is almost certain to be played out of position now.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Our lock Pstd is the only cover we have for 6,7,8 on the bench. Come on AC we needed a good flanker to come on in the Second half when NZ are traditionally strong. He is almost certain to be played out of position now.

yup. I don't get the whole plan of continuously using PSDT as cover for the loose forwards. He's not that good when he plays there, and we've seen this time and again. There's even a video of a very angry oomie saying "Jy kan nie vir Pieter-Steph Du Toit op flank speel nie", and that has been the case since the World Cup. Why keep on going down this route????

 

[George Ford]

yup. I don't get the whole plan of continuously using PSDT as cover for the loose forwards. He's not that good when he plays there, and we've seen this time and again. There's even a video of a very angry oomie saying "Jy kan nie vir Pieter-Steph Du Toit op flank speel nie", and that has been the case since the World Cup. Why keep on going down this route????

I don't think PSdT will disappoint this time round:
- He is not starting there, and will most likely only be introduced around 50 minute mark (hopefully for Uz Cassiem), when the game is expected to be less structured
- He is in a good space at the moment and been putting in spirited performances whole season.
- He actually featured at the back of the scrum quite a few times this year so he isn't unfamiliar with the role and i'm sure he has been gearing up for it.

I'm sure he has learnt from that England game last year and will be keen to make up for it given the opportunity.

What they might lack in cohesion or tactical coaching they can make up for in pure desire to post that most desired of wins over the oldest and most difficult foe for over a century.
The All Blacks.
I gotta tell ya, I feckin' hate losing to the Boks.
It's a worse feeling than losing to anyone else, anyone... maybe not Japan, Lol.
Sorry... couldn't resist.

HM's team had both cohesion and tactical coaching, but weren't clinical enough to show both in character when it mattered most. As for desire, I think this team is more set on letting their structures and processes do the talking. They are still a work in progress, and while they will set out the belief to win, i think being able to stay in the game as long as possible would be a positive enough result for them. Realistically.

 

[SomeOke]

yup. I don't get the whole plan of continuously using PSDT as cover for the loose forwards. He's not that good when he plays there, and we've seen this time and again. There's even a video of a very angry oomie saying "Jy kan nie vir Pieter-Steph Du Toit op flank speel nie", and that has been the case since the World Cup. Why keep on going down this route????

Because AC is too cowardly to try anything remotely different he would rather stick with what he knows, even if it doesn't work...

 

[TRF_heineken]

Because AC is too cowardly to try anything remotely different he would rather stick with what he knows, even if it doesn't work...

Yeah, well he had only 3 choices. 1. Pick PSDT, 2. Pick Dan Du Preez, 3. Call someone from SA to fly over that hasn't been part of the group the past couple of weeks.
choice number 3 wouldn't have worked as the player would have only arrived at the earliest today, and then only had tomorrow to train with the group.

so it was a flip of a coin between PSDT and Du Preez, and here I think he made the call based on PSDT's form from last week, and the fact that our opposition is the AB's, and that Du Preez would be a debutant...

So I wouldn't say it was a cowardly act, rather a calculated decision where the lesser of 3 evils was chosen.

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

Hames having a crack at a journo, good stuff.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/spo...i-journo-wrote-he-cant-scrum-gives-him-advice

 

[George Ford]

Dare AC to have all 4 locks on the park at some point in the match. Why not

https://www.alloutrugby.com/boks-have-fifitas-too-jake/

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/wiese-theyll-stick-to-pieter-steph-20170912

 

[unrated]

Yeah, well he had only 3 choices. 1. Pick PSDT, 2. Pick Dan Du Preez, 3. Call someone from SA to fly over that hasn't been part of the group the past couple of weeks.
choice number 3 wouldn't have worked as the player would have only arrived at the earliest today, and then only had tomorrow to train with the group.

so it was a flip of a coin between PSDT and Du Preez, and here I think he made the call based on PSDT's form from last week, and the fact that our opposition is the AB's, and that Du Preez would be a debutant...

So I wouldn't say it was a cowardly act, rather a calculated decision where the lesser of 3 evils was chosen.

Or... he could have dropped de Jager. Had Psdt as lock cover and Dan du Preez as loosie cover.

 

[SomeOke]

Yeah, well he had only 3 choices. 1. Pick PSDT, 2. Pick Dan Du Preez, 3. Call someone from SA to fly over that hasn't been part of the group the past couple of weeks.
choice number 3 wouldn't have worked as the player would have only arrived at the earliest today, and then only had tomorrow to train with the group.

so it was a flip of a coin between PSDT and Du Preez, and here I think he made the call based on PSDT's form from last week, and the fact that our opposition is the AB's, and that Du Preez would be a debutant...

So I wouldn't say it was a cowardly act, rather a calculated decision where the lesser of 3 evils was chosen.

I love how I'm the one disgruntled with AC and you're now defending him some what, how times have changed .
I'm really not trying to antagonize you Heineken I promise, I just don't feel AC is the guy to bring us forward.

I would have brought Dan DP on to the bench and dropped Lood, as unrated suggested basically the trade off is.

Lood as lock cover and PsdT as loose forward cover out of position OR
PsdT as lock cover and Dan DP as loose forward cover.

To me the latter option is better in both positions, but it would mean playing du Preez on debut (which is why I call AC cowardly).

 

[TRF_heineken]

Or... he could have dropped de Jager. Had Psdt as lock cover and Dan du Preez as loosie cover.

That would've been the best choice yes. But I can understand why he did what he did. I think the plan is to be competitive at lineout time and try to disrupt the AB's flow as much as possible. With our locks, we could even steal a bit of their ball at lineout time... (with that said, they can do that to us too)

I love how I'm the one disgruntled with AC and you're now defending him some what, how times have changed .
I'm really not trying to antagonize you Heineken I promise, I just don't feel AC is the guy to bring us forward.

I would have brought Dan DP on to the bench and dropped Lood, as unrated suggested basically the trade off is.

Lood as lock cover and PsdT as loose forward cover out of position OR
PsdT as lock cover and Dan DP as loose forward cover.

To me the latter option is better in both positions, but it would mean playing du Preez on debut (which is why I call AC cowardly).

Haha, If it was up to me, I'd had another player join the group from the beginning. I honestly don't understand the mentality of going on a tour and only taking 5 loose forwards. 4 of them will definitely play, with the other as a backup should one get an injury. but then after that, you're screwed. Take another guy along just for in case.

PSDT is never going to be our next Danie Rossouw...

 

[JohnKA]

i would still rather have AM in that backline rather than Jesse Kriel @ #13 i just feel he can add so much more , i would also have started DdP @ # 8 over Cassiem but i guess i am being a bit bias

 

[Durbanite]

No Dan! Was sure that was the only wanted change we would get to see besides perhaps PSDT starting, Lood is a great player when he doesn't loose the ball in contact *snigger*. PSDT should be our lock replacement and Dan should be on the bench rather than Lood, would've made our impact off the bench much more dangerous. Sure Dan would be a debutant, but he's tried and tested now at the Sharks on multiple levels, dude has some serious get up and go and is a monster on defence. A pity we won't see the twins run out together yet.

Backs with no changes. As predictable as the tides, AC left himself no room for experimentation with his quest for wins and now NZ will put them to the sword but I suppose we have very little choice in that department. At this stage changes would've been risky.

Looking at the teams, I'd say we were more then against it. NZ have been shaky which is all the more reason to be worried imo, this is the one that they'll be firing in all areas. The bokke will play their hearts out, and with their conditioning having improved I expect the score to be closer then last year, if we start hard, keep in touch on the board through to the second half, and come out of the tunnel ready to kill a win could be surprisingly difficult for the kiwis compared to last year.

I'm unsure as to how much we will rely on the boot, I hope rather than think that the coaching staff will try and emulate the Lions and the Aussies in a lot of aspects, and that first and foremost the boks will look to hold the ABs momentum and try and strangle their breaks. We can expect a large defensive effort and much scrambling but it won't mean much unless we can pressure the kiwis enough to put points on the board and that's probably where we will come undone. If the kiwis score early we have to hit back instantly or it'll run away from us.

As with the Aussie game, if we lose it's fair enough and an away loss is always very likely against the ABs but we need to make sure we're always learning from the opposition and we can have a much stronger game at home. For me though, a loss by more than 10 points will be a failure, and if the guys don't show any gees even more so. I can accept a loss to the ABs if our boys show that they tried everything for the full 80 but if it's all droopy shoulders and doubt before the second half I'll be very very upset.
All Blacks by 8~

 

[Durbanite]

i would still rather have AM in that backline rather than Jesse Kriel @ #13 i just feel he can add so much more , i would also have started DdP @ # 8 over Cassiem but i guess i am being a bit bias

Agreed! Am is on fire lately! Is he not injured now anyways though? I would also rather have Sbu Nkosi in the squad as backup wing rather then Leyds but that's probably bias as well, I hope we see them both in green and gold soon.

 

[JohnKA]

Agreed! Am is on fire lately! Is he not injured now anyways though? I would also rather have Sbu Nkosi in the squad as backup wing rather then Leyds but that's probably bias as well, I hope we see them both in green and gold soon.

Well Nkosi is already a better wing than Rhule

 

[SomeOke]

Well Nkosi is already a better wing than Rhule

I agree Nkosi is better than Rhule, but the Leydenator sjoe...

 

[JohnKA]

9 Ross Cronje
10 Jantjies/Pollard
11 Nkosi
12 RJVR
13 AM
14 Kobus van Wyk
15 Combrink

way better backline than we have now

 

[SomeOke]

9 Ross Cronje
10 Jantjies/Pollard
11 Nkosi
12 RJVR
13 AM
14 Kobus van Wyk
15 Combrink

way better backline than we have now

Quite a few Sharks you've got their .

It's hard to say what South Africa's best possible back line is at the moment but Leyds is the form back in South Africa I'm sorry to say, 80% tackle rate and the best attacking stats for a South African in Super Rugby.
I also wouldn't drop Serf as he's great defensively and has added good line-running game to his play.

9. Cronje
10. Jantjies
11. Combrink
12. RJVR
13. Serfontein
14. Leyds
15. Gelant

For me is the best we could put out at this stage.

 

[sharkfan]

Sorry I'm hitting a blank here. Who is AM?

9 Ross Cronje
10 Jantjies/Pollard
11 Nkosi
12 RJVR
13 AM
14 Kobus van Wyk
15 Combrink

way better backline than we have now

 

[mania]

eben etzbeth "We know they (the ABs) are our biggest competition and hopefully they know we are their biggest ... this Saturday is our biggest challenge of the year so far and we can't wait."
yes eben, Boks are the litmus test that NZ uses to test our players. if u can survive against the Boks then youre ready for international rugby