[2017 Rugby Championship] Round 4: New Zealand v South Africa (16/09/2017)

[squirrel]

Just seen the score, this is shambolic for rugby, didnt give the boks a chance when i saw their team and more importantly the ref, but for rugbys sake the boks should never lose so badly

 

[FrenchFan]

holy smokes. I missed the game. Had to double check on several website I wasn't reading the scoreline wrong!

This reminds me that it was announced France is touring....New Zealand next June. I can't imagine what the current French team will get out of the series.

in the next 8 mths France are going to play NZ 5 TIMES (2 in November 3 in June).

where is the sporting interest for NZ fans who will be watching? why does NZRFU agree to these games?

 

[Gavin]

Another reason why the Rugby Championship is so boring...

 

[sharkfan]

Just seen the score, this is shambolic for rugby, didnt give the boks a chance when i saw their team and more importantly the ref, but for rugbys sake the boks should never lose so badly

Yes it's a joke when both teams talk about the long standing rivalry and competitiveness between them, but then the one beats the other by 57 points!

 

[Zapphod]

Yes it's a joke when both teams talk about the long standing rivalry and competitiveness between them, but then the one beats the other by 57 points!

Not sure what to make of the game, I didn't think SA played badly and I don't think the AB's played all that well.

Usually after a result like that I would be happy but for some strange reason it all feels rather hollow.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

The worst thing is I am not surprised by the scoreline. That is how low SA rugby has got to.

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

in the next 8 mths France are going to play NZ 5 TIMES (2 in November 3 in June).

where is the sporting interest for NZ fans who will be watching? why does NZRFU agree to these games?

The more revenge for 2007 the better. Idk about others, but since that day in 07 I have always found beating the French deeply satisfying. Not gonna lie, I have never been more bitter about anything than that 07 quarter final lol

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

I didn't think SA played badly and I don't think the AB's played all that well.

Huh say what?!?!?

 

[FrenchFan]

The more revenge for 2007 the better. Idk about others, but since that day in 07 I have always found beating the French deeply satisfying. Not gonna lie, I have never been more bitter about anything than that 07 quarter final lol

that was 10 years ago?! I see you got over it quickly. have you tried therapy?

 

[Durbanite]

Alas, the talk of a grand plan to counter NZ's rush defense never came to fruition. Very little respect coming from the South Africans, also very little adaption. A perfect example was the kept thinking we could scrum over them instead of getting the ball out in a flash and playing on, it's obvious we wouldn't have milked a penalty after how many concessions. Dreyer was disappointingly underwhelming.

We're always so static, never coming onto the ball at pace, some bad hesitation, EJ and Hougie were totally confused at times, stalled in the midfield with ABs coming in hot. The ABs made it hard on us, but shying off the boot exposed our lack of attacking pedigree when the set piece gets disrupted or taken out of the game, we knew our backs were a problem, but the forwards were equally shell-shocked.

Playing Cas rather than Dan was a mistake, and PSDT probably should have been a starter. Marx's stalling on the lineout throw has finally been taken advantage of, and Eben cannot take his own medicine well at all, he was rattled when the ball started going over the top and NZ doggedly contesting and winning everything on target, was funny when they just decided to throw it over anyway but even that failed to a degree. It shows how much we've been relying on the lineout/scrums this year. IMO looks like we took for granted that we would be able to turn them over at the ruck and hold them up in contact, all we did was give them meters, we should have tackled the man rather- or at least the backs should have focused on the man rather than the ball more. The boks have forgotten the art of just not letting NZ players through the line and putting their heads together when they're against it. Gone are the days of pure heart and belief winning us games against NZ.

Rhule had a shocker, almost everyone said it from day one, that his appalling defence would be taken advantage of but the whole backline was stumped. Looking at the form of this NZ team and the way they were playing, we never would have realistically won this game with this team, but the set piece was handled terribly, no plan was made to shore up 14s channel, we did not manage to slow the ball down in any tangible way, passes were ridiculously shakey, delayed and wayward, Rhule failed to pressure the receiver after the kickoff numerous times giving the Kiwis plenty of time to exit or simply launch, Kriel struggled and it hurt us, we didn't adapt to Nigel as well as we could have, we did not match the pace of the game when we couldn't slow it down, Eben did not keep his team's morale up (can't reeeally blame him), scramble and sweep defense woeful, the chip was on but we couldn't execute when we did take that option, and all those damn handling errors leading to kak scrums and culminating to major Kiwi advantage.

Massive credit to the All Blacks, it looked like they were having huge fun out there, I don't think many teams could've scraped a win against them today. Aside from the enormous pressure, targeting our weak areas and inadequacies and then nullifying our strengths was brilliant and executed perfectly.

I think we're still on the right path, an absurd statement considering this is the biggest SA defeat EVER, but IMO our rugby culture and devlopment is still improving across the board. The last thing we need to do is backslide and regress into our old ways surely, NZ will obviously put us to the sword when we are still feeling out a more expansive and direct brand of rugby, especially with injuries, frankly sub-par backs and with them playing such good rugby. Newlands will tell an important tale, we'll be able to see what ACs answer to this stunning defeat will be. Seems to me that he has been absolutely stumped, questioning whether he will ever be able to come up with a game plan that can challenge the Kiwis even if he has the right personnel. It's extremely hard to be optimistic but I refuse to think that SA are beyond hope, if we keep building then perhaps by our 100th test against the Kiwis we will probably stand a better chance, but if AC looks to the past for inspiration I see only defeat ahead until we crash out of the RWC.

The only thing to do now is focus on the next game, sort out the backs as best as can be done, shake up the forwards and sort out our set-piece so that it cannot be exploited. We might have been beaten bloody by the Kiwis but there's other teams we need to look to dominate, AC can't drop the whole team and loose what progress we have made, if we get to this fixture every year and have an absolute crises each time the margin we loose by will only increase. We must carry on building and set the team before tweaking the formula rather than reinventing it, perhaps after a good EOYT and SR season we'll be in a better position to compete around this time next year.

Woeful, disgraceful, horrid bokke! Ruined my weekend with this nonsense performance but I'm not going to stop believing in them like so many of our emotional Saffa fans on social media and such have.

 

[Nubiwan]

Nothing ruins a game more than knowing you have taped it and can avoid the ignominy of sitting thru a thrashing. I taped the game, as no way I was getting up at 5 AM to watch it. As it turned out, I was up at 7:30 ish, came down, put on a pot of coffee, and strapped myself in. What a disappointment you All Blacks can prove to be. 15 opening minutes of general SA dominance in the sets and play, and they were down 10-0 to the clinical Blacks. Annoying!

When Skudder intercepted 50 meters out, the temptation to hit the fast forward button was simply too great. Now glad I did. I want to see a contest, not a cricket score. 50 odd nil was that last score I saw as the match whizzed by in 30-40 seconds on fast forward. Can someone tell me I can go back and watch the entire 80 minutes to see my contest? If so, then I am happy to oblige. As such, I cannot pass comment on anything, rather than suggest the Boks inability to really dominate the Wallabies last week, rather set the stage for their rugby enlightenment. The Wallabies draw with NZ in the previous rounds more a freak than anything to do with form. You Kiwis are just too annoyingly good to be entertaining. You are killing the game as a spectacle. Think about that for a minute. While a tongue in cheek statement, no one cares to see the blowouts.

Thank goodness for the British Lions ability to provide a physical contest for the ABs, even if beneficiaries of some dubious refereeing. The contests were still closer and more intriguing. Do we really have to wait another 12 years to see a team be able to compete with the ABs again?

I am now sitting watching Los Pumas V the Oz, and while the intensity and tempo, is not as high, there is a contest on show, and more intrigue. The Pumas can compete with any world union, which is to their credit, considering where they were about 25 years ago. 17-13 for the Wallabies at present, but I'd fancy the Pumas to take this, if they can perform at the level they did against the ABs last week. 24-13 as I speak. Going to take a big effort to justify my statement now.

The ABS should be forced to play a 2nd XV to make games fair.

 

[smartcooky]

Thank goodness for the British Lions ability to provide a physical contest for the ABs, even if beneficiaries of some dubious refereeing. The contests were still closer and more intriguing. Do we really have to wait another 12 years to see a team be able to compete with the ABs again?

The ABS should be forced to play a 2nd XV to make games fair.

Whinging about how good the All Blacks are achieves nothing.

Yes, they have set the bar very high, but its up to other teams to get better. What they are doing, and how they play is plain for everyone to see, so there is no reason why any team anywhere in the world shold not be able to match it.

 

[smartcooky]

Just seen the score, this is shambolic for rugby, didnt give the boks a chance when i saw their team and more importantly the ref, but for rugbys sake the boks should never lose so badly

Good old squirrel, always blaming the ref.... this time, before the match has even been played.

 

[mdaclarke]

At this level you need 15 strong players, I'd rather the Boks play with 14 than have Rhule in the side. The all blacks just run at him and get through the hole he leaves. He does more harm than good.

 

[Crazy Horse]

Too much time in the weight room for the Boks? Every player was bursting out of his jersey - impressive musculature but outweighing your opponent by 15kg is useless if playing an opponent with an expansive high-skill game and you run out of energy after 60 minutes.

 

[Ridzenieks]

The more revenge for 2007 the better. Idk about others, but since that day in 07 I have always found beating the French deeply satisfying. Not gonna lie, I have never been more bitter about anything than that 07 quarter final lol [/QUOT

It isn't/wasn't the fault of any French team that the (cynically unprofessional) RFU establishment manufactured a result by which England did not play NZ in the semi.

 

[FrenchFan]

Too much time in the weight room for the Boks? Every player was bursting out of his jersey - impressive musculature but outweighing your opponent by 15kg is useless if playing an opponent with an expansive high-skill game and you run out of energy after 60 minutes.

the NZ pack is the heavier one.

 

[Crazy Horse]

the NZ pack is the heavier one.

Not the forwards. I'm talking about the backs. Starting with the scrumhalf and on up. NZ aways seems to win the last 20 minutes. Whatever their conditioning coaches are doing is clearly giving them a significant edge on the opposition.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Thank goodness for the British Lions ability to provide a physical contest for the ABs, even if beneficiaries of some dubious refereeing. The contests were still closer and more intriguing. Do we really have to wait another 12 years to see a team be able to compete with the ABs again?

Or Ireland who beat them last year and definitely would have done as good a job, if not better, this summer against a misfiring NZ side, England too. NZ's main challengers are in the north now, I expect England to turn them over in Twickenham next year and I wouldn't fear them all that much in Dublin if they were to come. Today a very good team beat an average side who managed to hide their weaknesses against other average sides in previous weeks, not an unbeatable test side by any means. It might take 12 years for their to be competition in The Rugby Championship, but that will be due to Argentina developing to their full potential and/or SA sorting out their off field problems. NZ's level won't fluctuate much (And hasn't since around 2005) they won't likely be as good as the golden generation just past anytime soon but will never be as "bad" as the imbalanced side they brought to the 03 RWC again... Unless they give Gats his dream job.

 

[Ospervat]

AC Reaction to loss:-

http://m.sarugbymag.co.za/?postslug...s-for-boks#/coetzee-lot-of-positives-for-boks

AC trying to pass off shambolic mediocrity as acceptable. Sorry but the intelligent public do know that this Bok performance is a perfect example of everything that is wrong in SA today. Ineptocracy from the top down. We're not the idiots - you are!

 

[User1245]

Alright, who's going to start the crisis thread so we can whinge about what is wrong with SA rugby and why?

The fact that AC even mentioned the word positive after the match has me fuming. What planet is this guy on?!

The illusion that we're rivals with NZ has now been put to bed. They're now the team we have a crack at knowing we're going to loose either way.

 

[FrenchFan]

Brutal viewing. Particularly if you are French or Argentine. They got dominated by a side that in turn just got creamed. Frightening stuff really.

well I'm not sure about Argentina. But you have a point. I couldn't say if the series win in June made the Boks think they were better than they actually are (or maybe they couldn't conclude much about themselves as they realise how poor the opposition was?). Hard to say.

Maybe the lesson is that beating abysmal opposition in test rugby like the current French team is no yardstick of anything.

I think top sides have very high standards. They won't settle for a win. They also demand individual and collective performance with it. And they will keep playing with the foot down for 80 like NZ until they do.

 

[Iron Lion Zion]

Or Ireland who beat them last year and definitely would have done as good a job, if not better, this summer against a misfiring NZ side, England too. NZ's main challengers are in the north now, I expect England to turn them over in Twickenham next year and I wouldn't fear them all that much in Dublin if they were to come. Today a very good team beat an average side who managed to hide their weaknesses against other average sides in previous weeks, not an unbeatable test side by any means. It might take 12 years for their to be competition in The Rugby Championship, but that will be due to Argentina developing to their full potential and/or SA sorting out their off field problems. NZ's level won't fluctuate much (And hasn't since around 2005) they won't likely be as good as the golden generation just past anytime soon but will never be as "bad" as the imbalanced side they brought to the 03 RWC again... Unless they give Gats his dream job.

Ireland vs All Blacks - 30 games
Ireland 1 win - All Blacks 28 wins - 1 draw

I would not count on Ireland beating the All Blacks anytime soon

Also take note All Blacks played an experimental side against ireland in Chicago and paid the price for it. The rematch in Dublin was a crushing exercise where the All Backs effectivey crushed the air out of the Irish lungs. Lets please be realistic - Ireland nor England will be challenging the All Blacks anytime soon. If it was not for some very very fortunate and gifted reffing the Lions would not have drawn with the All Blacks. After all the lions only lead for all of 3 mins across the entire 3 match series.

If anything since the Lions series I fear the All Blacks have used that to improve even further. New Zealands golden period is NOT finished. They just put 57 points to 0 on a side that by all probable means would probably beat Ireland and England by at least 12 points.

England beat the All Blacks??? only in the build up by the press, if they play now then the All Blacks beat England by 30 points.

 

[Spuds100]

Or Ireland who beat them last year and definitely would have done as good a job, if not better, this summer against a misfiring NZ side, England too. NZ's main challengers are in the north now, I expect England to turn them over in Twickenham next year and I wouldn't fear them all that much in Dublin if they were to come. Today a very good team beat an average side who managed to hide their weaknesses against other average sides in previous weeks, not an unbeatable test side by any means. It might take 12 years for their to be competition in The Rugby Championship, but that will be due to Argentina developing to their full potential and/or SA sorting out their off field problems. NZ's level won't fluctuate much (And hasn't since around 2005) they won't likely be as good as the golden generation just past anytime soon but will never be as "bad" as the imbalanced side they brought to the 03 RWC again... Unless they give Gats his dream job.

Just had to sign up to point out that this is incorrect. Ireland beat a trial/B side team, even though history may not record that detail. The game was in the USA, and so is definitely not an indication that Ireland ever beat a genuine All Black side. I mean, there's a reason the All Blacks were able to turn up in Dublin a week later and beat the Irish in their own country.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Did this guy creating the second account convince everyone else too?

 

[smartcooky]

Just had to sign up to point out that this is incorrect. Ireland beat a trial/B side team, even though history may not record that detail. The game was in the USA, and so is definitely not an indication that Ireland ever beat a genuine All Black side. I mean, there's a reason the All Blacks were able to turn up in Dublin a week later and beat the Irish in their own country.

Hang on a minute. I don't agree that it was a trial/B side at all

1. Moody
2. Coles
3. O. Franks
4. Kaino
5. Tuipulotu
6. Squire
7. Cane
8. Read (C)
9. A. Smith
10. B Barrett
11. Savea
12. Crotty
13. Moala
14. Naholo
15 B. Smith

Reserves
16. Taylor
17. Tu'ungafasi
18. Faumuina
19. Barrett
20. A. Savea
21. Perenara
22. Cruden
23 Fekitoa

You can't tell me that was a Trial or B side. Yes, they were missing Whitelock and Retallick, and had Kaino out of position, but one of the great things about the All Blacks is their depth and the ability for their players to play different roles and positions in the team. They could and should have been able to deal with it - take a look at the team I just posted, and compare it with the team that just hammered the Boks last night. There is not a lot of difference!

IMO, this team in the Chicago match made two crucial errors

1. They took their eye off the prize instead of sticking with their standard training regime (too much sightseeing, not enough focus), and that either resulted from, or resulted in,

2. Taking Ireland too lightly. They expected to win.

The Irish must have realised very early on in the game that the intensity and physicality wasn't there from the All Blacks and they took full advantage of this - and bloody good on them for doing so. It was a salutatory lesson and a wake up call for the players.

 

[mania]

Can't help but feel that ABs have been pretty disappointed in themselves and the boks were on the receiving end of that anger.
Lots of denigrating the ABs and Barrett from media and public and ABs just had enough and took it out on boks
I'm happy the ABs played a complete 80 minute game to shut up the haters. It had to be against the boks as well as no other side is held in as high esteem as the mighty boks.

 

[mania]

Hang on a minute. I don't agree that it was a trial/B side at all

Agree. ABs got their come uppence fair n square. Ireland deserved their win vs a #1 quality ABs team. U can't win them all

 

[sharkfan]

Hats of to you Kiwis for still respecting and holding the Boks in such a high regard despite what happened yesterday

Can't help but feel that ABs have been pretty disappointed in themselves and the boks were on the receiving end of that anger.
Lots of denigrating the ABs and Barrett from media and public and ABs just had enough and took it out on boks
I'm happy the ABs played a complete 80 minute game to shut up the haters. It had to be against the boks as well as no other side is held in as high esteem as the mighty boks.

ats

 

[The Jones Boy]

gg

that was 10 years ago?! I see you got over it quickly. have you tried therapy?

10 years, thats nothing, try 1995 RWC final... that still gets my goat.