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[2021 Rugby Championship] Round 6 South Africa v New Zealand (02/10/2021)

Kiwiwomble

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12 looks like a problem position for ABs since Nonu, SBW and Crotty retired. Quinn Tupaea perhaps? But he’s very inexperienced.
he'd had the same number of AB's midfield starts as Havili before this year so they could have given him bigger go

On the midfield front i was very unimpressed by de Allende after the two Wallabies tests but he outplayed Havili with ease./

Not sure what Havili is doing in that AB midfield. Surely the ABs have someone better?

nope, you've missed our midfield has been a huge problem for a few years now, even crotty never REALLY locked down a spot, always others given little goes here and there

Havili was very good at 12 for the crusaders this year and has rightly been given a go, the first issue is foster is trying to play him like nonu, crash balls and then wondering why he isn't popping up on the other side, he did the same thing with bridge against aussie i think it was, made him come in for the short ball crash time after time like he was Ioane or savea or lomu....he seems to think all player in a position are the same, because your a left winger you have to play like lomu, its a real worry

its why i suggested Bridge might actually be better on right, we have a log history of semi fullbacks on the right (jane, smith, dagg, jordan) and a longer history of barnstormers or flyers on the left (lomu, roko, savea, Ioane, Clarke)....why are we now trying to play a fullback on the left and a flyer on the right without changing any of the game plans

I makes sense too, most peoples dominant pass is right to left and so your fastest and most accurate backline move is most likely a right to left flush...and so you want to end with a finisher....on the weekend we had Ioane wearing 11 but popping up in midfield and so our right to left ended with ALB.....its infuriating
 

NZbloke

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if it wasn’t for the 5 errors le roux made, I dont think we would have almost won the game. Plus you were talking about players not the performance of the team.

Shall we go through the lineups?
Starting front rows, equal. They have big defenders and big ball runners, we have more agility and both have good scrums, theirs slightly better.

Starting locks, boks by a mile. Etzebeth is a lineout machine, and lood is big, mobile, smart, was unlucky not to be world player of the year 2019.

Starting loose forwards, boks. They’re better at the breakdown. Equal on defence. We’re better in attack, but that rarely matters in big tests against teams who are good at the breakdown and on defence. Most importantly they are more experienced at this level. So while our players have potential, it’s not immediately coachable, they need experience too.

Halves, boks. Fafs kicks are ridiculous, just watch them move in the air. Pollard isn’t very good, beauden is better, but boks overall take it.

Midfield, hard to say.

Outside backs, us.

Reserve scrum, them by a mile
Other reserve forwards, equal
Reserve backs, us

But really, both teams are pretty even except the boks reserve scrum players is way better than ours, their lineout players are better than ours, but we have more X factor.
Yeah, le roux made a few errors... but that doesn't count for that much when the Boks controlled most of the terriorty & possession & still really struggled to win the game.

Starting front rows : True, the starting front rows are equal, we tend to have too many inexperienced props coming off the bench though, that's when they put us under pressure in the scrums.

Starting locks : When Whitelock & Retallick start both teams locks are pretty even in the lineout - what bloody annoys me & also gives them a big advantage at lineout time is their locks always challenge for our throw, which clearly applies a ton of pressure on us, yet when they throw into the lineout we stay on the bloody ground taking all the pressure off their jumpers, that's just dumb, no wonder their lineout functions better than ours... wouldn't say Etzebeth is that mobile around the field & his ball handling skills are certainly not as good as our locks.

Starting loose forwards : yeah, defending is equal & our loosies are certaintly more athletic & skillful - experience counts for a lot, gives a player better composure... have been saying for ages our work at the breakdown has been poor too often against all sides, only have to look at all the ball we turn over - we need to be doing the bloody basics far better in the breakdown area, get more numbers there to clean out & blow past the ball, then they wouldn't be able to roll over us taking our possession or slow it down so easily.

Playmakers : The spin that Fafs puts on the ball doesn't make it that difficult to take it in the air, we didn't drop a heap of aerial ball in the last game because our technique in the air was much better this time - Pollard use to attack the line, doesn't do it anymore so is a lot less effective as a 10... BB is definitely a x-factor player with his speed & handling skills etc, but he's crap when the pressure is on at 10, struggles to make good common sense decisions.

Midfield : Reckon the ABs lack variation in the midfield... we need a power player there that can consistently get us over the advantage line.

Outside Backs : yeah, we have the advantage in the outside backs... the Boks have some outstanding outside backs, but unfortunately they get starved of running ball.

Good debate mate.
 
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NZbloke

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Heard that both AB locks Barrett & Tuipulotu have decided to return home - will be great to have Whitelock back again, was a strange call though for them to select young 20 year old inexperienced lock Josh Lord to go on tour, doesn't make much logic when we already have one inexperienced lock there already, think Tupou Vaa'i is 21 ? ...the common sense call would be to select a more experienced lock instead.
 

Kiwiwomble

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Patty isn't much of a loss if im honest, always looks like he's running through treacle, doesn't fit with the fast paced game theyre trying to play

Scott is a card machine but was settling into the lock role, never liked him as a 6 so more of a loss

I like Vaa'i so happy for him to get more of a go, all jokes aside if they wanted some experience Bryn evans hve an awesome season for the landers, surely his age was the only thing stopping him getting an AB call up
 

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Patty isn't much of a loss if im honest, always looks like he's running through treacle, doesn't fit with the fast paced game theyre trying to play

Scott is a card machine but was settling into the lock role, never liked him as a 6 so more of a loss

I like Vaa'i so happy for him to get more of a go, all jokes aside if they wanted some experience Bryn evans hve an awesome season for the landers, surely his age was the only thing stopping him getting an AB call up
Yeah, Patty wasn't that great, we have always had plenty of locks more mobile than him, but at least he had that experience factor, Scott does his job pretty well though.

Vaa'i looks to have the goods - I also like the other Highlanders lock Parkinson too, there's were also other options out there as well.
 

Kiwiwomble

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Yeah, Patty wasn't that great, we have always had plenty of locks more mobile than him, but at least he had that experience factor, Scott does his job pretty well though.

Vaa'i looks to have the goods - I also like the other Highlanders lock Parkinson too, there's were also other options out there as well.
im obviously a big fan of PPP but he has pleanty of detractors unfortunately
 

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im obviously a big fan of PPP but he has pleanty of detractors unfortunately
I'm a Canes supporter, but reckon he's a superb lock, very mobile around the field, so he can get quickly to the breakdowns & is a really good lineout forward - don't know why he has plenty of detractors, they're clearly fools that can't analyse their rugby properly... Parkinson is a very similar type to Retallick, reckon it would be brilliant having those two as our AB locking pair.
 
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ChicagoKid

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All Blacks midfield is pretty poor compared to Wallabies and Boks. The attempt to turn Riko into a 13 shows that Foster is throwing crap against the wall to see if anything sticks. Havili was very poor in test 1 and invisible in test 2. Wales and France are going to hit that channel hard. And the French in particular can physically dominate weak midfields.
 

Kiwiwomble

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i'll say it again, Havili was gettgin super slow ball in the first SA test, both TJ and BB looked like they were passing in slow mo, Havili was get the ball under pressure every time. Yes he had a bad game, but it wasn't all down too him, i think he deserves some games with Smith and Richine inside him
 

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All Blacks midfield is pretty poor compared to Wallabies and Boks. The attempt to turn Riko into a 13 shows that Foster is throwing crap against the wall to see if anything sticks. Havili was very poor in test 1 and invisible in test 2. Wales and France are going to hit that channel hard. And the French in particular can physically dominate weak midfields.
Foster specializes in throwing crap against the wall hoping it sticks :D thought it was crazy when he didn't want Laumape, reckon a good combo would've been Havili at 13 & Laumape at 12, they would've given us more variation & both have good pace... yeah, Rieko is much better on the wing, it's silly trying to make him into a midfielder.
 
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NZbloke

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i'll say it again, Havili was gettgin super slow ball in the first SA test, both TJ and BB looked like they were passing in slow mo, Havili was get the ball under pressure every time. Yes he had a bad game, but it wasn't all down too him, i think he deserves some games with Smith and Richine inside him
To be fair too a lot of times why our backs didn't have much time & space was because of slow pedantic service from our forwards.
 

Kiwiwomble

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he's not even starting for wellington, hell of a fall from grace althought not one is quite sure why, his brother is also a rising star, had a huge influence on the Highlanders win over the Crusaders, but is injury prone
 

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Wheres Laumape? I rate that guy so highly. Pace like mad and very much a Kerevi type player.
 

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ABs have so many players that could slot in at 12. IMO should just pick someone and ride the slumps. It'll happen to everyone at one stage in their career. Think its more a case of either getting the player to fit the game or adapt the game to fit the player. That said it really shouldn't be panic stations for NZ IMO. You'd have thought they weren't RC champs and we beat them 50-0 on the weekend some of the reactions I've seen elsewhere more so than on this site.

Still a lot to work on for both sides and the margins have been slim but both teams are right up there. Autumn series is going to be interesting. Mental fitness will be tested.
 

The_Blindside

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It’s a pairing at the end of the day. ABs have too many same type of players at 12/13. Had it good for so long with Nonu and Smith. Boks have a good pairing in DAA and Am atm.
 

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NZbloke

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Signed for Stade Francais


Amazingly Foster didn't want him by basically wanting to give him a pay cut - no wonder Laumape decided to go overseas, just highlights again what a poor head coach we have at the moment... Laumape is the complete 2nd-five, all midfielders are good on denfence, he offers more on attack than any midfielder we have though, his power running & speed, executes grubber kicks well, good offloader etc, just reads play well, he reminds me so much of Nonu.
 
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NZbloke

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he's not even starting for wellington, hell of a fall from grace althought not one is quite sure why, his brother is also a rising star, had a huge influence on the Highlanders win over the Crusaders, but is injury prone
Umaga-Jensen must have an ongoing injury... he's wgtn's best midfielder.
 

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