[2021 Six Nations] France vs Wales (20/03/2021)

[GrandTimonier]

Full credit to Wales. I thought they outplayed us for most of the game.

However, the great rugby show was somewhat tarnished by the constant and suffocating presence of referees.
I'm not even gonna debate wether the calls were good or not, there was just way too many of them
Yesterday's match was as much about top-notch rugby as it was about hearing 2 nerdy englishmen chat with each other to decide the fate of the game...
TBH i would rather have to swallow a couple of injustices than have the game constantly broken up by refereeing interferences.
No one i know watches international rugby to see a good ref performance. Like the fact that retiree Nigel Owens is somehow a star of this game is completely wrong. To me, a ref that performs at his best should go completely unnoticed.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Nothing has changed in a few years. There's nothing/not much between England Ireland and Wales

To be honest, the current England team are so talented and have that much experience they should be a cut above Wales and Ireland.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Did you see Wales last Autumn? A single try is an improvement I don't think Wales are that great at the moment, but they are better than a lot of people give them credit for. With the England game for example, yes it was two dodgy decisions. But people overlook the last 20 where Wales completely dominated the game.

I did but again, in 2019 England suddenly started scoring tons of tries, it lasted for a year and then fell off again. If Wales keep it up against 15 then yes, it's fair to say their attack is much better but I just don't feel this 6N alone is enough to comment on other than to say that Wales are better than they were last year.

 

[ncurd]

To be honest, the current England team are so talented and have that much experience they should be a cut above Wales and Ireland.

I wouldn't go quite that far but they are hugely underperforming, we saw glimpses of what they are capable of last week, we have a coaching/selection issue. It's one thing to keep picking an over the hill second rower cause its all you've got another when your number 8 looks completely unfit and you have a European player of the year to select instead.

I've said it before and whilst I don't think England should be winning every year because that's stupid. They should be competing for the ***le in the last week as a minimum (our resources are too great yadda yadda yadda) and we should be making the RWC SF each time out as well. This year its went badly wrong and all steams from leadership and coaching.

 

[MikeTheNative]

I did but again, in 2019 England suddenly started scoring tons of tries, it lasted for a year and then fell off again. If Wales keep it up against 15 then yes, it's fair to say their attack is much better but I just don't feel this 6N alone is enough to comment on other than to say that Wales are better than they were last year.

I don't think Wales are troubling anyone for the best attack ever. But their attack against 15 was questioned and the times they have played against 15 they have scored points. It's a bit of a fluke how they have managed the 2nd highest points total in a decade but clearly they can score points against a full team.

 

[MikeTheNative]

I wouldn't go quite that far but they are hugely underperforming, we saw glimpses of what they are capable of last week, we have a coaching/selection issue. It's one thing to keep picking an over the hill second rower cause its all you've got another when your number 8 looks completely unfit and you have a European player of the year to select instead.

I've said it before and whilst I don't think England should be winning every year because that's stupid. They should be competing for the ***le in the last week as a minimum (our resources are too great yadda yadda yadda) and we should be making the RWC SF each time out as well. This year its went badly wrong and all steams from leadership and coaching.

I look at the team that went out of the groups at 2015 WC. The current team is so much better than that. Like you said it would be a bit big headed to expect them to compete for every grand slam. But the current player pool is a lot better than 5th place.

 

[Genghis]

What a brilliant game of rugby that was!

The Welsh team have done us proud. Entering the tournament in some disarray and under pressure from the public, People were already losing patience with Pivac.

They showed some real character and grit in coming through the first few games that could easily have gone the other way. The set piece, the physicality was back and there was some clinical and lethal finishing. Goal kicking was to the usual high standard. The thing that impressed me was their composure and belief. Yes, there were red cards that helped them, but Welsh discipline was genuinely superb (until the last ten minutes of the whole tournament) and that's why they've had a good tournament. They always front up, they never get bullied on the gain line anymore and they never, never capitulate. They have found some new international class players and also revitalised some veterans...... Well done lads.

We are probably (but certainly not definitely) going to win the tournament. I would have bitten your hand off for that 6 weeks ago.

A few words for France. Congratulations to the French team, who were magnificent. To be under the cosh like they were for 70 minutes, to be bullied in the collisions, to be second best at the breakdown, and to be effectively on the back foot for so long, plus to have a red card against them - and to keep their self belief and shape, to throw everything at the end and to go for a last throw of the dice, retaining their skills and clarity of thought when they were so tired. Magnifique! This French team are the real thing.

In fact, they did to us what we have done to so many teams over the years.

A shame somebody had to lose that match.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I don't think Wales are troubling anyone for the best attack ever. But their attack against 15 was questioned and the times they have played against 15 they have scored points. It's a bit of a fluke how they have managed the 2nd highest points total in a decade but clearly they can score points against a full team.

I don't doubt they can score points, I just don't think their attack is "2nd highest points total" good. Anyway this feels like it's just going in circles.

 

[MikeTheNative]

I don't doubt they can score points, I just don't think their attack is "2nd highest points total" good. Anyway this feels like it's just going in circles.

I agree it's bit of hyperbole but it was the counter to people dissing Wales how they can't attack.

 

[bushytop]

I did but again, in 2019 England suddenly started scoring tons of tries, it lasted for a year and then fell off again. If Wales keep it up against 15 then yes, it's fair to say their attack is much better but I just don't feel this 6N alone is enough to comment on other than to say that Wales are better than they were last year.

I do see what you're saying to some degree about having scored tries against 14 men etc but even taking that into account I personally feel sufficiently satisfied enough to state that Wales 2021 are better than Wales 2020.

 

[MikeTheNative]

I do see what you're saying to some degree about having scored tries against 14 men etc but even taking that into account I personally feel sufficiently satisfied enough to state that Wales 2021 are better than Wales 2020.

Anything is better than 2020 Wales lol. But they have shown just as good as all the other teams in the 6 nations.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I do see what you're saying to some degree about having scored tries against 14 men etc but even taking that into account I personally feel sufficiently satisfied enough to state that Wales 2021 are better than Wales 2020.

Yes I agree they are definitely better than they were last year. I just think "better than last year" and "good attack" are not quite the same thing. Vastly improved attack definitely but I just feel that the conditions in this 6N, which were not Wales fault, led to their attack facing 14 men for almost half of their successful tries. All teams can have flash in the pan years, especially with a new coaching setup. Repeating it consistently between now and the 2022 6N will be the real test. Moving in the right direction, positive signs and LRZ proving to be the find of the tournament so far but just need to show they can keep up up consistently.

In terms of this year, I'd rate them 2nd in attack after France. I just feel the attacks of England and Ireland have got a lot worse at the same time as Welsh attack has improved from a very low point last year.

 

[bushytop]

Anything is better than 2020 Wales lol. But they have shown just as good as all the other teams in the 6 nations.

Totally agree, just replying to the statement from @ragerancher where he suggested that he hasn't seen enough to make that statement.

 

[bushytop]

Yes I agree they are definitely better than they were last year. I just think "better than last year" and "good attack" are not quite the same thing. Vastly improved attack definitely but I just feel that the conditions in this 6N, which were not Wales fault, led to their attack facing 14 men for almost half of their successful tries. All teams can have flash in the pan years, especially with a new coaching setup. Repeating it consistently between now and the 2020 6N will be the real test. Moving in the right direction, positive signs and LRZ proving to be the find of the tournament so far but just need to show they can keep up up consistently.

So, I was just referring to your statement of 'I just don't feel this 6N alone is enough to comment on other than to say that Wales are better than they were last year.'... about the Wales attack... I think that it has probably improved to be fair. It's still not to the level of SA, NZ, France and 'once in a blue-moon' England but I do think the Pivac-Wellies blueprint is starting to take shape. I hope to see it bed in further in the Autumn and next 6 Nations.

 

[Brandon2k]

LP

What about yesterday where they put more points on a 15 man France away than either England or Ireland did at home?

Dodgy try helped. Ungrounded.

 

[bushytop]

Dodgy try helped. Ungrounded.

 

[Brandon2k]

Full credit to Wales. I thought they outplayed us for most of the game.

However, the great rugby show was somewhat tarnished by the constant and suffocating presence of referees.
I'm not even gonna debate wether the calls were good or not, there was just way too many of them
Yesterday's match was as much about top-notch rugby as it was about hearing 2 nerdy englishmen chat with each other to decide the fate of the game...
TBH i would rather have to swallow a couple of injustices than have the game constantly broken up by refereeing interferences.
No one i know watches international rugby to see a good ref performance. Like the fact that retiree Nigel Owens is somehow a star of this game is completely wrong. To me, a ref that performs at his best should go completely unnoticed.

Agreed bring back the bad old good old days of accepting what we thought at home were bad decisions. Instead of having them replayed to death and rammed down our throats and which promotes bitterness not harmony.

 

[MikeTheNative]

The Adam's try was always a try. As the ref gave his on-field decision try there wasn't clear enough evidence to rule it no try.

 

[ThebigARena]

Dodgy try helped. Ungrounded.

An ENGLISH ref and an ENGLISH tmo say your wrong.

 

[ThebigARena]

Full credit to Wales. I thought they outplayed us for most of the game.

However, the great rugby show was somewhat tarnished by the constant and suffocating presence of referees.
I'm not even gonna debate wether the calls were good or not, there was just way too many of them
Yesterday's match was as much about top-notch rugby as it was about hearing 2 nerdy englishmen chat with each other to decide the fate of the game...
TBH i would rather have to swallow a couple of injustices than have the game constantly broken up by refereeing interferences.
No one i know watches international rugby to see a good ref performance. Like the fact that retiree Nigel Owens is somehow a star of this game is completely wrong. To me, a ref that performs at his best should go completely unnoticed.

Thank you brother