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2nd Test: South Africa v Lions

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
I am now gatvol of these Lions!

This attitude that these Lions players are displaying during this tour is really P*SSSING me off and getting under my skin. They are creating this impression that they believe they are above us saffers and are looking down on this once colony. They display disrespect to their counterparts and their comments post match leave much to be desired. Constant complaints about refereeing, opposition and now even the weather are indicative of their level of sportsmanship. Last night several players refused to shake hands with the E Boks after the game and even before the match at the toss.
Watching Lions on Safari, especially the 1997 tour, further reinforced the impression that the Lions do think they are God's gift to the world of rugby, that they hate the Springboks and still think they are holier than thou and rulers of the world. This 2009 team does not seem to be any different! They do not compliment their opposition on their performances even though they DID struggle against most of the provinces and lost to the Springboks and only drew against the EBoks. All they do is blame the Ref, the weather, and what ever they conjure up! I start to feel insulted as a South African by these lot and can only imagine how the players should be feeling!

I HAD decent respect for the Lions players. Guys like OGara, ODriscoll, Stephen Jones, Ugo Monye, Gordon D'Arcy, Shane Williams, Tom Croft and James Hook, all names I 've come to know from watching European Rugby and admired for their class and brilliance, but I've totally lost respect and now actually despise Ronan O'Gara, and his attitude on and off the field is reflective of the whole Lions camp! Not that he has done much performance wise but his attitude reeks of poor sportsmanship. This Powell fella, the same. Do they think we owe them something? Do they think they are the greatest things since Rugby? Who do these guys think they are to come here as guests and insult, not only our players, but also the South African public, with their complaints about poor attendances? This is not the pre-1940's anymore and we do not owe them ANYTHING more than decency, sportsmanship and the respect they earned as world class players. And they owe us the same!

No other international team has EVER been so rude and disrespectful towards our team on home soil(well, post 1992 in any event) and I really don't appreciate it. This week, leading up to the second test is getting me more and more hot collared with these attitudes and excuses from the BIL side, not even mentioning the SA Coach accusing the Springbok public of being racist!

Why then if the Lions cannot concede they were up against quality opposition, and acknowledge them, should we be gracious in victory and gracious hosts? If someone comes into my house with an attitude like that, I will kick their arses and roll them down the driveway off my property!

No, this is not on and a tour to which I was so looking forward to has let me down terribly. I can't believe I actually fealt pity for Phil Vickery, who is a legend in his own right, being booed they way he was last night when he came onto the field, and for the severe criticism he endured this past week. Once a hero, now just discarded by his own. Yes, there are the players I admired before and some I will keep admiring for great sportsmen, but its these holier than thou attitudes that is leaving a bitter sour taste in my mouth for this tour.

Come Saturday there will be no prisoners. THIS IS SPARTA!! The supporters will stand there in their Red Coats and pointing toy guns, trying to remind us of the time when my great grand-mother were held captive in a concentration camp and died there. Its like swinging the Swastika in front of a jew, a red flag in front of a Bull! And I know I am not the only one feeling this way.

All this just reinforces my support for the Boks. I do not give a toss at this stage who plays. They can fill the entire team with Impis for all I care as long as we demolish these disrespectful tourists! My wish is for the Boks to humiliate this British and Irish Lions team until the point that they MUST acknowledge and concede that they were up against World Champions who deserve their ***le and due respect! Until then, I will not give the BIL one ounce of respect anymore. To me they have become the ENEMY, not the guest![/b]
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Very good read, and very true for the most part... The rest of this guys blogs on that page are just as interesting.

http://sportblogs.24.com/ViewBlog.aspx?blo...c7-3a33e5e85bfc
 
I'll say it again... there's owt quite like test rugby to truely bring out the worst in people.

Just seen this post, a few points of note;
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (C A Iversen @ Jun 25 2009, 01:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Richie McCaw cheats (never plays well, just cheats) - He's a 7, and a bloody good one at that; His job is to cheat. However, are you denying he does get away with a lot more then any other 7 does?
We are overrated, due to losing crucial world cup games - As opposed to "All NH teams are **** and deserve no respect (*coughGrahamHendrycough*)"
We always want all the rule changes our way - In the case of Australians, yes. Every WC they don't win, John O'Neil (or his equivalent) kicks up a fuss. Deny that with a straight face.
We aren't losing crucial talent, which we should be paid transfer fees for to clubs. Thats all three nations down here. - You guys wanted professionalism. Don't blame the clubs if your players choose to leave.
Schalk Burger and Victor Matfield are both cheats also - You're denying Burger isn't a thug? Dunno who said Matfield is a cheat though.
We steal all our good players from the Pacific Islands (they weren't nearly all born in our country) - Yet all the NH clubs have unlimited funds and are in league to sabotage the SH national teams...
As a nation we should all hang our head in shame due to some mindless thugs - So you're not ashamed that those idiots were mindless thugs? Whichever way you paint it, their actions reflect on you and every other Kiwi rugby fan. You should be ashamed and disappointed being unfortunately associated with them.
Bryan Habana is an "average" winger - Nobody in their right mind will have said that for a few years now.
We hurt Brian O'Driscoll (still hearing about it) - Change the record
World rankings are meaningless, so we shouldn't take any pride in them - :huh: Who says that?[/b]
Click to expand...

When in glass houses....
 
Wow first the WC try that should have stood for Cueto and now this! http://www.supersport.com/rugby/article.as...d&id=305501

I used to have a lot of respect for Geech but that is rapidly changing!! His first excuse is that the rain was a great leveler to his team(supposed superior skills I assume) implying that they would have been much better team had it not rained. So the E-Boks would have taken a beating if it was dry? Surely the BIL should have been better in these conditions with a much larger pack? The -Boks were pretty much a scratch team that came together about 5 days before the game,hence the massive Lions diappointment!! Hell there were quiet a few players from the BIL that did not want to shake hands with the Boks aftewards, O'Gara should be ashamed of him self. Where is the well done E-Boks?

In the after match interview all Gatland could talk about was that his team had played all the rugby the Saturday before, basically saying the Lions should have won. He must have missed th first 55mins when they were getting pumped. Saying things like Phillips had passed the ball more times than the whole SA team blah blah.......... Gracious Lions management.

I have stated already that the arrogance of this management & team is so extreme that it is a negative. The 97 team achieved a good series win but not by playing the best rugby hell the try count was 9-2 in the end.

There is only on true Lions series winners in my eyes as hey achieved success on and off the field. The 1974 Lions were loved and respected by the Saffa public.
 
I was hoping the SA management were not going to give to much verbal ammunition to the BIL, hell I should not have worried as the BIL are doing all the talking and giving the Boks plenty of ammo for this weekend. The Boks changing room will be plastered form wall to wall with all their gracious quotes.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (C A Iversen @ Jun 25 2009, 01:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Richie McCaw cheats (never plays well, just cheats). Class player. Simply the best 7 in World Rugby. And yes he does cheat. I wish he played for us, and cheated for us.
We are overrated, due to losing crucial world cup games. Wouldnt say your overrated. Best team in World rugby for years. probably in a tight battle with Boks right now, but its close. You have a history of choking though, as do the Irish. Stating the obvious is not a crime.
We always want all the rule changes our way. Would be surprised if you didnt. That politics, the fundamentals of negotiation. We do the same.
Schalk Burger and Victor Matfield are both cheats also / Habana is average. They are South Africn Players, why do you give a ****?
We steal all our good players from the Pacific Islands (they weren't nearly all born in our country). Of course you do. Thems the rules thgouh, so its fine by me. We have taken a few players ourselves, as have the English. Nothing illegal.
We hurt Brian O'Driscoll (still hearing about it). Oooooooooo I'll let that one go. The fact your bringing it up says it all for me.
World rankings are meaningless, so we shouldn't take any pride in them. Up to you if you do or dont. I think they are bang on.[/b]
Click to expand...

I dont know Iversen. Your arguement jumps from point to point with little to no continuity. Everytime your challenged you just skip along on to something else, changing your arguement. Then one of the posters jumps in saying your great, NZ are great and everything is rosie and your all buddy buddy with them? Elgringo and you were going hell for leather until he said he used to drink with New Zealanders and thought they were great, once you saw that you changed your tune and you were all over him like a cheerleader on prom night.

Your opinion seems to depend on whether other people like you or not. It has little to do with what they say.

The "in-fighting" as you say is based on two welsh posters who believe Williams should be selected on the wing. The rest of us are either saying Monye or Fitzgerald. Thats about it really, sod all selection issues to debate as they are all looking after themselves. If thats upsetting you .... well maybe the internet is not for you? Adding to that, why your feeling offended about what people do or do not think about South African rugby players is beyond me.
 
As for the propaganda from the Lions management. Never liked it when the coaches talk at all. Gatland has made mistakes doing it in the past but here it sounds like they are trying to convince themselves that they were completely hammered in the first test.

As with every rugby fan, I'd love to see the lot of em gagged, or just take a leaf out of Kidney's book by talking but saying nothing.

As for the press. Well its their job to find a story, any story. Most of em just make stuff up anyway so would harldy take anything they say as representative of anything but their own poluted rag. Didnt hear anything of the questionable kick. Read the above and thought it funny they would even look at it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ Jun 25 2009, 06:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Very good read, and very true for the most part... The rest of this guys blogs on that page are just as interesting.
http://sportblogs.24.com/ViewBlog.aspx?blo...c7-3a33e5e85bfc[/b]
Click to expand...
Which bits are true exactly? Just seems to be a personal rant based on heresay and press talk. Not argueing just trying to get a feel for what the Bok's are experiencing.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBokke @ Jun 25 2009, 08:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Wow first the WC try that should have stood for Cueto and now this! http://www.supersport.com/rugby/article.as...d&id=305501

I used to have a lot of respect for Geech but that is rapidly changing!! His first excuse is that the rain was a great leveler to his team(supposed superior skills I assume) implying that they would have been much better team had it not rained. So the E-Boks would have taken a beating if it was dry? Surely the BIL should have been better in these conditions with a much larger pack? The -Boks were pretty much a scratch team that came together about 5 days before the game,hence the massive Lions diappointment!! Hell there were quiet a few players from the BIL that did not want to shake hands with the Boks aftewards, O'Gara should be ashamed of him self. Where is the well done E-Boks?

In the after match interview all Gatland could talk about was that his team had played all the rugby the Saturday before, basically saying the Lions should have won. He must have missed th first 55mins when they were getting pumped. Saying things like Phillips had passed the ball more times than the whole SA team blah blah.......... Gracious Lions management.

I have stated already that the arrogance of this management & team is so extreme that it is a negative. The 97 team achieved a good series win but not by playing the best rugby hell the try count was 9-2 in the end.

There is only on true Lions series winners in my eyes as hey achieved success on and off the field. The 1974 Lions were loved and respected by the Saffa public.[/b]
Click to expand...

To be fair though, there wasn't nearly the amount of visibility and coverage of the 74 tour, or even the '97 tour as there is now. We have gone down the unfortunate route of having to provide excuses for poor performances - Simply EVERYTHING is dissected and commented on nowadays.
Therefore the sh*tty excuses are rolling out of the coaches! It's something that i now HATE, and almost never watch the post-match interviews anymore because you know for a fact that they've had the "communications officer" in their ears before it telling them what to say, what not to say, and how to say it!
The general public now expect answers for every disappointment and it can't be: "they were really good and we weren't up to much" it's just not accepted and if anything like that IS said - all of a sudden it's all eyes on the coach or stuff like "The players are now running the camp" "the coaches have lost touch" etc etc....
It's total bull, but lameoid excuses are now part and parcel of the whole thing - An unwelcome guest in my opinion..
 
On a side point, or maybe on topic. Habana said today that Altitude should not be a factor.

Does anyone know if the Lions have been based at altitute for the past few weeks? I mean they fully understood the potential effects it could have so surely it couldnt be a factor in the next two tests. If it is, it cant be an excuse, its just pure stupidity.
 
When does the Lions test side get announced? I thought it would be midday today, like it was last week, but no update on the website so far
 
Kearney in at full back, Fitzgerald on the wing, Shaw in the second row and Rees and Jones in the front row.
 
Lions Team

15. Rob Kearney
14. Tommy Bowe
13. Brian O'Driscoll
12. Jamie Roberts
11. Luke Fitzgerald
10. Stephen Jones
9. Mike Phillips
1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Matthew Rees
3. Adam Jones
4. Simon Shaw
5. Paul O'Connell ©
6. Tom Croft
7. David Wallace
8. Jamie Heaslip

16. Ross Ford
17. Andrew Sheridan
18. Alan Wyn Jones
19. Martyn Williams
20. Harry Ellis
21. Ronan O'Gara
22. Shane Williams
 
Very Suprised Shaw is starting I would of thought he'd make a good impact player coming off the bench to give a big heave for the last 20 or something,,
 
Edit: Team already named

Shaw has looked good coming off the bench, but starting an old man not in great form in a must win test doesn't feel right, all the other changes are bang on though.
 
Strange to see Shaw starting, surprised Donnach isn't on the bench, as i don't think Shaw has outplayed him this tour. Suppose they're just trying out a new pack combination after the scrums/lineouts last week, and hines being out for the week,
Still think it's odd to see Shaw starting though

Not surprised at the other changes though tbh, Mears throwing has gone a bit doolally recently, and Rees played well last week
 
Maybe they don't want to Boks to get away from them in the first 20mins - hence the Shaw selection? Take him off at 1/2 time
 

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