A History Thread

Discussion in 'The Clubhouse Bar' started by The Alpha Bro, Jun 11, 2020.

  1. The_Blindside

    The_Blindside International

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    Yeah Germany and Japan didn’t get stuck in their past like we have.

    Britain getting hit after the war as it spent so much on the war effort and had to go to the USA with begging bowl via Keynes; a debt not paid off until 2006, with the interest charged and USA demanding relaxation of exchange controls.

    But also due to the loss of the British Empire, meant our resources becoming depleted and no longer rely on it. Hence why we had to eventually join the common market, but delayed until De Gaulle was no longer French President as he kept blocking UK’s entry. It turned out he was right to; saying UK was never European and more closely tied to USA.
     
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  3. Tallshort

    Tallshort International

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    @Amiga500

    Point 1: Yes Halifax would have sued for peace that is in no historical doubt. It was between him and Churchill who would succeeded Chamberlin and if Halifax had won then Great Britain would have become a neutral but pro German state similar to Vichy.

    Point 2: Yes the Germans established air superiority in the first months of Barbarossa but by December 41 it was massively depleted and also having to fight in the Med and increasingly over Western Europe. German industry could not keep up with the losses in aircraft after the Battle of Britain. The Luftwaffe would be bleed white by 1943.

    those 10 divisions (all mechanised by the way) would have have proved decisive in December 1941, it would have doubled the effective strength of the Wehmacht.

    Point 3: sorry trying to be polite but that's utter ********, American tanks equipped 20 Guards divisions, American trucks numbering 250000 supplied the Red army with most of its transport without which such operations like Operation Begration would not have been possible, American raw materials enabled the Red Army to keep its war machine going after areas such as the Ukraine had been captured. in 1942 most Soviet tank divisions were equipped with Lend lease tanks from both the UK and US due to the Red Armies catastrophic losses in 1941. Without these tanks Operation Uranus (the counter attack at Stalingrad) would not have been possible.

    Point 4: I know the scale of Barbarossa but you dont grasp that the Germans attacked while being heavily outnumbered, any additional wear and tear on its tanks, planes, troops all decreased its already slim chance of success. Would an earlier attack have made a difference? time scales no but if the German formations had been fresher and had an additional 10 mechanised divisions (although the Africa Corps wasnt quite that big) then the chances of defeating the Soviets would have greatly increased.

    Its not just aircraft that run on fuel...
     
  4. Every Time Ref

    Every Time Ref First XV

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    Arguably more in the realm of anthropology than history but I’ve just started reading 1491 by Charles Mann, an excellent book about pre-Columbine civilisation in the Americas.

    The basic premise is that there was far, far more going on before Europeans arrived than we are taught in schools, and than even most anthropologists realised for a long time. We have this image of much of the Americas being small societies with no “advanced” civilisations apart from the Inkas and Mexica (the group we incorrectly call Aztecs) - apparently the European diseases travelled much much quicker than the men that brought them, as a result an estimated 95% of American Indians died.

    Most of the Americas was already decimated by the time Europeans arrived, so they didn’t know they were witnessing societies that had been utterly destroyed a few years before. It’s like an alien landing in Hiroshima in 1945 just after the bomb, and concluding that what they see is how Earth people live.

    Really fascinating book, only a third in and have already massively rethought what I thought I knew about that part of the world. Highly recommend.
     
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  5. bertiec

    bertiec Academy Player

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    Long footie match.
     
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  6. The_Blindside

    The_Blindside International

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