A Political Thread pt. 2

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Ukraine conflict: Liz Truss backs people from UK who want to fight

The foreign secretary says volunteers must make their own decision in the "fight for democracy".

www.bbc.co.uk

Is she nuts? Even if they have no military training? This isn’t COD or paint balling.

There is a part of me that wonders if its cover for brit soldiers being there at some point tbh, claiming that they are just civilians taking up arms

 

[Bada-Bing!]

There is a part of me that wonders if its cover for brit soldiers being there at some point tbh, claiming that they are just civilians taking up arms

This is the British Foreign Secretary though. She should know a hell of a lot better. Where was the encouragement of Britons going to fight in Syria? It is inevitable sure - there are those who will be encouraged, who might think/want to go solo but what then? Who is going rescue them should they get inevitably trapped there and die and recover their remains? So many consequences.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

There is a part of me that wonders if its cover for brit soldiers being there at some point tbh, claiming that they are just civilians taking up arms

There are clips of combat in Ukraine with very obvious British accents in the background (such as one from when that airport kept changing hands, the other day, which had Scottish and English voices giving orders)

Probably just "independent contractors", but I wouldn't be surprised if some special forces stayed behind with the anti armour weaponry we sent across a couple weeks back "to train the local forces" (a tale as old as time in SF involvement)

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

There are clips of combat in Ukraine with very obvious British accents in the background (such as one from when that airport kept changing hands, the other day, which had Scottish and English voices giving orders)

Probably just "independent contractors", but I wouldn't be surprised if some special forces stayed behind with the anti armour weaponry we sent across a couple weeks back "to train the local forces" (a tale as old as time in SF involvement)

This is my thinking yeah, I hadn't seen those videos but it's a good excuse for them being there - for it to be convincing you have to be shouty about random blokes from Engerland going and defending democracy.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

There is a part of me that wonders if its cover for brit soldiers being there at some point tbh, claiming that they are just civilians taking up arms

The would be straight out of the Russian playbook.

Pictures of the new weapons have been shown:

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

The would be straight out of the Russian playbook.

*modern military playbook*

 

[Deleted member 53362]

There are clips of combat in Ukraine with very obvious British accents in the background (such as one from when that airport kept changing hands, the other day, which had Scottish and English voices giving orders)

Probably just "independent contractors", but I wouldn't be surprised if some special forces stayed behind with the anti armour weaponry we sent across a couple weeks back "to train the local forces" (a tale as old as time in SF involvement)

Most likely advisors but I believe the Ukrainian government were looking at employing foreign soldiers to serve in its military which is perfectly understandable given the situation they are in.

Not sure about leaving actual British personal behind to blow up Russian tanks. Could see them advising, training and providing the UK government with intelligence but actually engagement with Russian regulars would be avoided

 

[ncurd]

 

[Deleted member 53362]

Germany sending weapons too. That's massive from a historical point of view

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Ukraine: what will China do? There are signs it is uneasy about Putin’s methods

Beijing has held off from backing Russia, raising questions about the extent of any partnership

www.theguardian.com

Our tolerance of Russian corruption in Britain fatally clouded our judgment

Seduced by money, and then isolated by Brexit, the UK has foregone its chance to lead in the response to the Ukraine crisis

www.theguardian.com

'No time to wait': Wladimir Klitschko urges world to take action amid invasion of Ukraine – video

Wladimir Klitschko has issued a rallying cry for the world to 'stop this war' amid Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

www.theguardian.com

 

[Amiga500]

He ain't going.

I would think tonight there will be more than a few Generals in the Russian army having face to face meetings and asking themselves a few questions.

Putin may really have overplayed his hand here.

Twice during the Turkish missile crisis (also known as Cuban missile crisis to those that never bother to get the other side of the story); the cowboy yanks* nearly started World War 3 on the same day - 27th Oct 1962.

Twice, it was Soviet officers that did the right thing.

Here's hoping that sense of morality is still in the cadre somewhere.


*and fair f**ks to JFK who had to face down the bulk of his own advisors and military leadership.

 

[Amiga500]

Ukraine conflict: Liz Truss backs people from UK who want to fight

The foreign secretary says volunteers must make their own decision in the "fight for democracy".

www.bbc.co.uk

Is she nuts? Even if they have no military training? This isn’t COD or paint balling.

Yeah.

In the north here, it was estimated at the height of things, 60,000 British troops were tied down by around ~500 PIRA members. None (or very few) of whom would have received formal military training.
Obviously, if there were any kind of structured battle, then that would only have went one way- but asymmetric warfare has a different set of rules.

Its far, far harder to hold ground than it is to take it if the local populace is broadly very against you - unless you are gonna resort to some form of ethnic cleansing.


Russia has bitten off far more than it can chew in terms of keeping Ukraine long term. They could wipe the Ukrainian military out as a coherent fighting force next week - but their problems would still only be just beginning.

 

[Amiga500]

There is a part of me that wonders if its cover for brit soldiers being there at some point tbh, claiming that they are just civilians taking up arms

Sir, I request a year out from the regiment please.

What for Sgt?

Well, myself and a few other buddies in my platoon are thinking of going backpacking for a year in Eastern Europe sir.

Oh, very nice Sgt. I believe the army are actually running a gap year program right now, so you might be able to get full pay on your year out.

Excellent sir.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Yeah.

In the north here, it was estimated at the height of things, 60,000 British troops were tied down by around ~500 PIRA members. None (or very few) of whom would have received formal military training.
Obviously, if there were any kind of structured battle, then that would only have went one way- but asymmetric warfare has a different set of rules.

Its far, far harder to hold ground than it is to take it if the local populace is broadly very against you - unless you are gonna resort to some form of ethnic cleansing.


Russia has bitten off far more than it can chew in terms of keeping Ukraine long term. They could wipe the Ukrainian military out as a coherent fighting force next week - but their problems would still only be just beginning.

Yeh, it’s the message from her that makes me uneasy. Idiots with no formal military training going out there to fight in the name of democracy are gonna make things worse and get themselves killed for nothing.

 

[Deleted member 53362]

Yeah.

In the north here, it was estimated at the height of things, 60,000 British troops were tied down by around ~500 PIRA members. None (or very few) of whom would have received formal military training.
Obviously, if there were any kind of structured battle, then that would only have went one way- but asymmetric warfare has a different set of rules.

Its far, far harder to hold ground than it is to take it if the local populace is broadly very against you - unless you are gonna resort to some form of ethnic cleansing.


Russia has bitten off far more than it can chew in terms of keeping Ukraine long term. They could wipe the Ukrainian military out as a coherent fighting force next week - but their problems would still only be just beginning.

Wasn't just the 500 PIRA though was it and despite what many people like to think the British army didn't go full Tonto like the Russians (Chechens) will.

There is a part of me that wonders if its cover for brit soldiers being there at some point tbh, claiming that they are just civilians taking up arms

As someone who served in the British army this seems very far fetched. Like Amiga points out, the British army don't do gap years and certainly not to go and fight in wars.

 

[Amiga500]

Wasn't just the 500 PIRA though was it

Exactly - ties into the asymmetric rules.

500 members and maybe 5,000 people actively supporting, 50,000 people tacitly assisting and 500,000 saying nothing when they see something.

Ukraine has a population of what, 40m? Of which say 20m will be hostile to the Russian invasion?

and despite what many people like to think the British army didn't go full Tonto like the Russians (Chechens) will.

Yeah, true. But, against that I expect there to be a very readily available supply of advanced munitions across the Polish border - and potentially even via drone air drops at some point in the future if needs.

The European Ho-Chi-Minh trail.

 

[Deleted member 53362]

Exactly - ties into the asymmetric rules.

500 members and maybe 5,000 people actively supporting, 50,000 people tacitly assisting and 500,000 saying nothing when they see something.

Ukraine has a population of what, 40m? Of which say 20m will be hostile to the Russian invasion?


Yeah, true. But, against that I expect there to be a very readily available supply of advanced munitions across the Polish border - and potentially even via drone air drops at some point in the future if needs.

The European Ho-Chi-Minh trail.

I was thinking more about the red hand gang.
The operation in Northern Ireland was primarily a policing operation. It was nothing compared to operations in Iraq or Afghanistan and wasn't really that uncomfortable. The best posting in my regiment was in NI and people would always be trying to get posted there so it's not really comparable to an occupation like say the one the British Army had in Basra.

Regards Ukraine, the Russians have to defeat the conventional Ukrainian forces which despite my earlier and rather stupid prediction seem to be really putting up a scrap, helped in no uncertain terms by Javelin and Stinger AT and AA platforms supplied by NATO counties.

China will have to step in at some point. I would hope Russia will realise it's bitten off more than it can chew and China can step in acting at the peace maker

 

[Amiga500]

I was thinking more about the red hand gang.

Oh aye, forgot about them!

The operation in Northern Ireland was primarily a policing operation. It was nothing compared to operations in Iraq or Afghanistan and wasn't really that uncomfortable.

So the number of soldiers required per head of population would only be higher in Ukraine than NI in your opinion?

Either way - my basic point here is that 100,000 troops sounds like a lot - but its a drop in the ocean when your looking to control 40m people across a country larger than Germany and the UK... combined.


Anywayz, one thing is for sure. The storyline for the next Call of Duty is written!

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

On top of peace talks and Putin's raising of the nuclear response level, literally because 'some NATO leaders said things that hurt my feelings' today we have:

- German outbreak of sanity has lead to EU commitment purchase $500 million of military supplies for Ukraine
- Turkey now calling it a war and saying they will implement restrictions on Russian fleet movements in the Black Sea (largely symbolic in my opinion)
- Belarus having a sham referendum to permit Russian nukes on its territories (hopefully a PR step of face saving as an exit strategy)
- Ukraine so far repelling the attack in Kharkiv which, along with the south, seems to be the main pressure points today after a quick regime change went out the window.

 

[Deleted member 53362]

Oh aye, forgot about them!



So the number of soldiers required per head of population would only be higher in Ukraine than NI in your opinion?

Either way - my basic point here is that 100,000 troops sounds like a lot - but its a drop in the ocean when your looking to control 40m people across a country larger than Germany and the UK... combined.


Anywayz, one thing is for sure. The storyline for the next Call of Duty is written!

Yes in the short term. Don't forget after a successful initial intervention by the British army in 69, the follow up operation was badly handled and amounted to an escalation of violence. If the Russians take over and return people's lives to normal quite quickly then I doubt there will be much resistance as most people just want to return to normality. Resistance fighting might sound romantic but it's ******* hard and puts lots of strain and danger on not just the person involved but their entire family.

I am still fairly hopeful that China will step in and give Russia a face saving reason to withdraw, a prolonged guerilla campaign will be very painful to everyone