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A Political Thread pt. 2

Trump is much easier to understand then people think. He's an old fart who cannot remember what he said or did moments after doing it. Regardless of political leanings, like Biden, he's not fit to do the job.
I agree, it must be hard to keep up with what a decade of bullshit so far...

He did a great job of making his age a non issue last time round, the Biden is senile train was in full force, and Harris was just so unlikable and was always going to fail from the start, but ultimately he's shown just as many cognitive issues as Biden did
 
Not sure Labour will do that well in these or the next election by their current direction either. Pretty much everyone I know that supports Labour has said they won't vote for them again. Guess they'll go green, lib or Plaid Cymru.
I'm voting whoever has most chance to win that isn't Reform/Tories likely LD or Green
 
I'm in the same boat. I don't particularly like Labour, but a vote any other way could give reform/tories a chance. I'll just have to vote tactically when the time comes.
This is literally the entire problem of our political system in a nutshell. People voting Tory or Labour not because they genuinely want to, but because they believe only those two have a chance of winning and they would rather keep the other out. We then end up with unpopular governments because many people didn't actually want to vote for them and just ping pong between the two with no real change.
 
Just my take, but they all come across as keeping the status quo. Look at labour here or Macron. They talked a good game, but nothing is or will dramatically change.
Democrats currently do, which is why I asked why they don't go for someone who doesn't offer more if the same and embraces being left wing, **** what the right wing media says. It appears there are quite a few Americans who fundamentally accept left wing views but are frightened away from it by propaganda.
 
I'm in the same boat. I don't particularly like Labour, but a vote any other way could give reform/tories a chance. I'll just have to vote tactically when the time comes.
There is a Tory councillor where my dad lives and he has openly stated he thinks the Tories intentionally tried to cause as much damage as possible on the way out to screw Labour over.
 
This is literally the entire problem of our political system in a nutshell. People voting Tory or Labour not because they genuinely want to, but because they believe only those two have a chance of winning and they would rather keep the other out. We then end up with unpopular governments because many people didn't actually want to vote for them and just ping pong between the two with no real change.

Yup - we need some form of PR; even the shittest form of PR that we were offered by Cameron is preferable to FPTP; and that was deliberately the shittest form available (coupled with no real explanations of how it would actually work)

My preference is an adaptation of the Kiwi system (if I've understood it right).
If I've got this right:

You have X seats for a region, of which half are constituency MPs that are elected with FPtP as per normal. The other half are then filled up from the best performing losers in such a way that total X is fully proportional (and not just flown in by the party's preference).
A party only gets into the PR portion if they ran candidates in every constituency within the region (so SNP do for Scotland, PC do for Wales, Count Binface doesn't for wherever he stands).
Sensible to add transferable vote in there as well, which would boost the representational value of the PR portion.

To take a fictional region in England, and let's call it... Central.
Central has 60 seats in Westminster, split into 30 constituencies.
Those constituencies get their seats filled by FPTP, winner takes all.

Which may end up as (figures taken from GE2024) Lab 19, Con 6, Ref 0, Lib 3, Green 0, Other 2
But with a vote split of Lab 33.7%, Con 23.7%, Ref 14.3%, Lib 12.2%, Green 6.4%, Other 9.7% (this "Other" really doesn't help the maths)

The losing candidates for each party in Central, are arranged in order of vote share locally
The 2 best performing, losing Labour candidates, get a PR seat (21 total) for 35.0% regional representation
The 10 best performing, losing Conservatives candidates, get a PR seat (16 total) for 26.7% regional representation
The 9 best performing, losing Reform candidates, get a PR seat (9 total) for 15.0% regional representation
The 5 best performing, losing Lib Dem candidates, get a PR seat (8 total) for 13.3% regional representation
The 4 best performing, losing Green candidates, get a PR seat (4 total) for 6.7% regional representation
Assuming that "Other" isn't represented across the whole region, they get 0 extra seats (2 total) for 3.3% regional representation

Each constituency gets the most popular local MP
Each region get represented proportionately, with the MP based on the vote share of each candidate.


FPTP from GE2024 would have given: Lab 38, Con 11, Ref 0, LD 7, Green 0, Other 3 with 1 seat up for grabs (between Reform and Green).
33.7% of the 2024 vote, gave labour a 63.2% representation in parliament



Of course, do this, and tactical voting becomes far less of a thing, and after a couple of cycles, you'd get more representative voting, and more representative parliament.



Personally, of courses, I'm in favour of devolved power (about the same as Scotland's) to the 9 English regions anyway (and bringing Wales and NI up to the same power-level), with elections as above, and then PR representation from each regional parliament to Westminster for national issues. But that's very much me.
 
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There is a Tory councillor where my dad lives and he has openly stated he thinks the Tories intentionally tried to cause as much damage as possible on the way out to screw Labour over.
I remember a Spitting Image sketch back in the day where it looked a cert that the tories were going to lose the general election, so trashed number 10. They won a shock result and were ****** off they’d have to clean up their mess.
 
Yup - we need some form of PR; even the shittest form of PR that we were offered by Cameron is preferable to FPTP; and that was deliberately the shittest form available (coupled with no real explanations of how it would actually work)

My preference is an adaptation of the Kiwi system (if I've understood it right).
If I've got this right:

You have X seats for a region, of which half are constituency MPs that are elected with FPtP as per normal. The other half are then filled up from the best performing losers in such a way that total X is fully proportional (and not just flown in by the party's preference).
A party only gets into the PR portion if they ran candidates in every constituency within the region (so SNP do for Scotland, PC do for Wales, Count Binface doesn't for wherever he stands).
Sensible to add transferable vote in there as well, which would boost the representational value of the PR portion.

To take a fictional region in England, and let's call it... Central.
Central has 60 seats in Westminster, split into 30 constituencies.
Those constituencies get their seats filled by FPTP, winner takes all.

Which may end up as (figures taken from GE2024) Lab 19, Con 6, Ref 0, Lib 3, Green 0, Other 2
But with a vote split of Lab 33.7%, Con 23.7%, Ref 14.3%, Lib 12.2%, Green 6.4%, Other 9.7% (this "Other" really doesn't help the maths)

The losing candidates for each party in Central, are arranged in order of vote share locally
The 2 best performing, losing Labour candidates, get a PR seat (21 total) for 35.0% regional representation
The 10 best performing, losing Conservatives candidates, get a PR seat (16 total) for 26.7% regional representation
The 9 best performing, losing Reform candidates, get a PR seat (9 total) for 15.0% regional representation
The 5 best performing, losing Lib Dem candidates, get a PR seat (8 total) for 13.3% regional representation
The 4 best performing, losing Green candidates, get a PR seat (4 total) for 6.7% regional representation
Assuming that "Other" isn't represented across the whole region, they get 0 extra seats (2 total) for 3.3% regional representation

Each constituency gets the most popular local MP
Each region get represented proportionately, with the MP based on the vote share of each candidate.


FPTP from GE2024 would have given: Lab 38, Con 11, Ref 0, LD 7, Green 0, Other 3 with 1 seat up for grabs (between Reform and Green).
33.7% of the 2024 vote, gave labour a 63.2% representation in parliament



Of course, do this, and tactical voting becomes far less of a thing, and after a couple of cycles, you'd get more representative voting, and more representative parliament.



Personally, of courses, I'm in favour of devolved power (about the same as Scotland's) to the 9 English regions anyway (and bringing Wales and NI up to the same power-level), with elections as above, and then PR representation from each regional parliament to Westminster for national issues. But that's very much me.
Seems a bit complex. Personally I'd prefer the Commons stayed for constituencies but with the Alternative Vote (what was proposed in the referendum) and the Lords is binned off and replaced with a straight up national PR chamber.

In addition I'm in favour of greater devolution with England being split into regions each with their own funding.
 

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