A Political Thread pt. 2

[Welsh Exile]

In fairness, Egypt are well within their rights to refuse to accept Palestinians after their Prime Minister warned Netanyahu about the impending Hamas attack before Oct 7th which he chose to ignore.

How is that a reason to refuse refugees?

 

[McTallshort]

I personally wish they would explore the idea of moving people into Isreal and keeping them safe there. I don't know the area well enough but there must be somewhere inside Isreal that people can be moved to temporarily

Safe from what?

 

[Welsh Exile]

Safe from what?

Before I answer, you are aware that @LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) is laughing at the current state of play. Abhorrent isn’t it mate.

 

[General Melchett]

How is that a reason to refuse refugees?

Because the Hamas attack could have been foiled if Netanyahu had done his job and taken the warning seriously. It's negligence and incompetence on a staggering scale and that is being kind. There are also theories circulating that he let it happen knowing it would give him the excuse he needed.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Because the attack could have been foiled if Netanyahu had done his job and taken the warning seriously.

And again, how is that a reason to refuse refugee? Was it their fault? If that is the reason Egypt aren’t accepting any Palestinian refugees it sounds pretty petty but we all know that’s not the reason why they don’t.

 

[General Melchett]

And again, how is that a reason to refuse refugee? Was it their fault? If that is the reason Egypt aren't accepting any Palestinian refugees it sounds pretty petty but we all know that's not the reason why they don't.

Because from Egypt's perspective the situation was avoidable had Netanyahu acted on the intel they provided him with. You can keep deflecting with questions but I get that you won't hear or accept any criticism against the Israeli Government. And no that doesn't mean I support Hamas or have been fooled by their propaganda.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Because from Egypt's perspective the situation was avoidable had Netanyahu acted on the intel they provided him with. You can keep deflecting with questions but I get that you won't hear or accept any criticism against the Israeli Government. And no that doesn't mean I support Hamas or have been fooled by their propaganda.

No I've got no problem with criticism of the Israeli government (I've got lots of them) I just stop short of comparing them to Nazis and stuff like that.

If my kid was doing something stupid and I said to him, don't do that you will hurt yourself but he carries on doing it and hurts himself, I think I'm a bit of a dick if I don't help him out even though I warned him. Do you really think the reason Egypt don't accept any refugees is because they warned Netenyahu and they're really annoyed that he ignored them? Come on mate.

 

[McTallshort]

Before I answer, you are aware that @LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) is laughing at the current state of play. Abhorrent isn't it mate.

Yeah

 

[Welsh Exile]

Yeah

The answer to your original question was keep them safe from whatever operations they've got against the remaining Hamas fighters in Gaza

 

[General Melchett]

No I've got no problem with criticism of the Israeli government (I've got lots of them) I just stop short of comparing them to Nazis and stuff like that.

If my kid was doing something stupid and I said to him, don't do that you will hurt yourself but he carries on doing it and hurts himself, I think I'm a bit of a dick if I don't help him out afternoon though I warned him. Do you really think the reason Egypt don't accept any refugees is because they Warne's Netenyahu and they're really annoyed that he ignored them? Come on mate.

I never mentioned Nazis and so you so appear to be integrating another grievance into this exchange. I like you as a poster but using phrases like 'you lot' isn't great.

That kid/parent analogy is not comparable at all IMO. Neighbours would be closer to the mark

 

[Welsh Exile]

I never mentioned Nazis and so you so appear to be integrating another grievance into this exchange. I like you as a poster but using phrases like 'you lot' isn't great.

That kid/parent analogy is not comparable at all IMO. Neighbours would be closer to the mark

I never said you did.

Ok, replace my child with my neighbour. Is that still an acceptable reason? Leaving aside it’s not the reason why they don’t.

 

[General Melchett]

I never said you did.

Ok, replace my child with my neighbour. Is that still an acceptable reason? Leaving aside it's not the reason why they don't.

It's still not that comparable as it depends on a number of politically sensitive things. Would the Egyptian people accept it. Is their economy strong enough to afford it etc. A good neighbour would accept refugees but I wouldn't be criticising Egypt for declining especially if Israel wasn't paying for it.

 

[Welsh Exile]

It's still not that comparable as it depends on a number of politically sensitive things. Would the Egyptian people accept it. Is their economy strong enough to afford it etc. A good neighbour would accept refugees but I wouldn't be criticising Egypt for declining especially if Israel wasn't paying for it.

But that’s something completely different. I half agree with that, the reasons they don’t allow them in is multi faceted. Firstly they don’t want Hamas terrorists but they also have to balance, as you rightly point out, political and social things as well when making a decision like that. What does not factor into their thinking is “we warned them so let’s not take any in” thats all I was pushing back against.

 

[General Melchett]

But that's something completely different. I half agree with that, the reasons they don't allow them in is multi faceted. Firstly they don't want Hamas terrorists but they also have to balance, as you rightly point out, political and social things as well when making a decision like that. What does not factor into their thinking is "we warned them so let's not take any in" thats all I was pushing back against.

I'm not saying Egypt shouldn't accept refugees. I am saying that I wouldn't criticise them for not given what happened. I personally don't think using a very simplistic analogy of kid/parent or neighbours is useful because there are clearly a lot of political complexities in play.

In terms of criticism, Egypt refusing refugees is pales into insignificance when compared with Netanyahu failing to act on the warning he received from the Egyptian PM.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Good to see @LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) is channeling his inner Harry today and doing the laughing thing instead of engaging in a conversation. (actually Harry does engage so that’s not fair) oh well, I’m glad he finds the situation so funny.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I'm not saying Egypt shouldn't accept refugees. I am saying that I wouldn't criticise them for not given what happened. I personally don't think using a very simplistic analogy of kid/parent or neighbours is useful because there are clearly a lot of political complexities in play.

I personally would criticise them if their reason for not accepting refugees was “we warned you and you didn’t listen so we’re not taking any” that would be pathetic and worthy of criticism. I don’t believe that is the reason but I was pushing back against your original assertion that was the reason why they weren’t accepting any.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Also, I never criticised Egypt. The words I used were it would solve the problem of Egypt and other countries not taking them.

 

[dirty harry]

I don't give it a damn what its actually labeled. The IDF under the orders of the Elected Israeli government are clearly doing acts the average man on the street would consider abhorrent in Gaza beyond normal war engagement.

Most would at least consider them war crimes.

We shouldn't be supporting them.

You want the west to just stop supporting the greatest strategic and military ally they have?

Forget about influence, counter terrorism, counterbalancing of others influence in the middle east, shared values, historical support, and historical atrocities...

Like it or not thebwest, specifically US will not turn their back on Isreal, not for many empathetic reasons, bit for Isreals significance on the world stage.

 

[General Melchett]

I personally would criticise them if their reason for not accepting refugees was "we warned you and you didn't listen so we're not taking any" that would be pathetic and worthy of criticism. I don't believe that is the reason but I was pushing back against your original assertion that was the reason why they weren't accepting any.

In terms of criticism levels, Egypt refusing refugees pales into insignificance when compared with Netanyahu failing to act on the warning he received from the Egyptian PM pre October 7th.

 

[Welsh Exile]

In terms of criticism levels, Egypt refusing refugees pales into insignificance when compared with Netanyahu failing to act on the warning he received from the Egyptian PM pre October 7th.

Ok, that’s a different claim now.

But yeah, for sure, one of my criticism of this very incompetent Israeli government starts with the biggest act of incompetency, that October 7th was allowed to happen in the first place.