A Political Thread pt. 2

[Welsh Exile]

Sure, but you haven't said where else in Israel would be considered "safe" even temporarily. Israel is a small country hence why they've shoehorned Palestinians into Gaza, West Bank.

The only other place would be the Golan Heights. Is that even habitable?

I said I’m not sure where but anywhere in Isreal is going to be orders of magnitude safer than Gaza.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I said I'm not sure where but anywhere in Isreal is going to be orders of magnitude safer than Gaza.

Yeh that’s why others are questioning your thinking. Not that straight forward is it?

 

[Welsh Exile]

Yeh that's why others are questioning your thinking. Not that straight forward is it?

I never proposed it as a straight forward option. The actual words I used was “I personally wish they would explore the idea”

 

[Welsh Exile]

I just don't see how in any world it is a good idea to keep people who have been killed and displaced in the very country that has committed war crimes on them

It's like locking the sheep in with the wolves

Why can't the Palestinians have a safe space in their own nation?

How many rockets has Hamas launched to Israel recently?

Is it a good idea if the alternative is death?

 

[Welsh Exile]

Would be useful if you guys actually read the words I use and engage with what I'm saying and not with what you think I'm saying.

 

[Reiser99]

I said I'm not sure where but anywhere in Isreal is going to be orders of magnitude safer than Gaza.

So Gazans should be moved into Israel because Gaza is not safe as Israel is bombing the **** out of it under the continued pretence of eliminating Hamas, while it conveniently allows their settlers to grab more land.

How about Israel stops ******* bombing them and actually tries to implement a two state solution?

 

[Welsh Exile]

So Gazans should be moved into Israel because Gaza is not safe as Israel is bombing the **** out of it under the continued pretence of eliminating Hamas, while it conveniently allows their settlers to grab more land.

How about Israel stops ******* bombing them and actually tries to implement a two state solution?

Sure, and ideally everyone would come together and hold hands and sing Kumbaya my lord.

Out of interest, let’s take your thought through to its likely conclusion, let’s say not only do they stop the bombing they also pull every settler out of the West Bank and say we want a 2 state solution. Do you think Hamas or even the majority of Palestinians, accept that?

 

[ncurd]

Do you think Hamas or even the majority of Palestinians, accept that?

I think its a possibility they've been close several times if not for internal politics of Israel and the assasination of Yitzhak Rabin.

But the leadership of Israel needs to change.

 

[Reiser99]

Sure, and ideally everyone would come together and hold hands and sing Kumbaya my lord.

Out of interest, let's take your thought through to its likely conclusion, let's say not only do they stop the bombing they also pull every settler out of the West Bank and say we want a 2 state solution. Do you think Hamas or even the majority of Palestinians, accept that?

Don't change the question. Just acknowledge that your idea is stupid. It's like saying Ukranians should move to safe area in Russia to avoid being bombed by Russia.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I think its a possibility they've been close several times if not for internal politics of Israel and the assasination of Yitzhak Rabin.

But the leadership of Israel needs to change.

I disagree to be honest. I agree that leadership needs to change, though, but it has to happen on both sides.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Don't change the question. Just acknowledge that your idea is stupid. It's like saying Ukranians should move to safe area in Russia to avoid being bombed by Russia.

I will accept my idea is unlikely but that is largely down to the unwillingness of the Israeli government and something, among many other things, that I would criticise them for.

Leaving. That aside, let’s pretend that Israel implement my idea, what do you think would happen? Do you think Israel would kill them all?

 

[Reiser99]

I will accept my idea is unlikely but that is largely down to the unwillingness of the Israeli government and something, among many other things, that I would criticise them for.

Leaving. That aside, let's pretend that Israel implement my idea, what do you think would happen? Do you think Israel would kill them all?

I think it's irrelevant and hypothetical but at best they would be second class citizens, but likely just live in perpetual poverty controlled by Israel

 

[Welsh Exile]

I think it's irrelevant and hypothetical but at best they would be second class citizens, but likely just live in perpetual poverty controlled by Israel

I think that’s a pretty fair analysis actually. I would disagree with the wording as they wouldn’t be citizens so by definition would be 2nd class but I agree with the general point you’re making. I would just say that is still preferable to them living in poverty AND being in danger from the fighting in Gaza. I just want as few civilians to die as possible but I still maintain n the elimination of Hamas is a legitimate military objective. An objective that obviously should not be achieved at all costs which is why I want some outside the box thinking about how they can best protect the lives of Palestinian civilians.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Actually, another good thing about my genius, albeit unlikey, idea, is that you would also solve the problem of Hamas stealing aid and you could manage the **** show/war crimes at the aid collection points a lot easier within Israel.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I said I'm not sure where but anywhere in Isreal is going to be orders of magnitude safer than Gaza.

You’ve also got the issue of how do you move Palestinians from Gaza into Israel into Israel? It would be a massive national security risk - especially those Hamas members hiding in plain sight. So no, either way your idea is a no go.

 

[Welsh Exile]

You've also got the issue of how do you move Palestinians from Gaza into Israel into Israel? It would be a massive national security risk - especially those Hamas members hiding in plain sight. So no, either way your idea is a no go.

I’m not saying it would be easy and it’s probably why I would rule out your suggestion of the Golan heights in the north as it’s a long way to go.

You know Hamas hide in plain sight anyway don’t you?

 

[AlRums]

Israel defence minister plans to move Gaza's population to camp

Israel Katz tells Israeli media the so-called "humanitarian city" in Rafah will eventually house 2.1 million Palestinians.

www.bbc.co.uk

I'm sure there's a word for the forcible involuntary displacement movement of populations from one location to another - I just can't quite think what it would be without implying some sort of war crime - which, of course, the "most moral army in the world" would never stoop to.
I'm also pretty sure there's generally another word that's used when you set up a camp, and concentrate a large number of enemies there and don't allow them to leave. I'm not sure it's a "humanitarian city" though. Again, I'm having difficulty in finding what word to use without implying something negative about the state of Israel.

FTR, of course, Hamas = bad

Since you used the word concentrate I should think we have the makings of a concentration camp.

Israel is obviously and illegally trying to annex Palestinian territory not just in Gaza but also by their determination to expand their invasion into the west bank and displace the Palestinians there.

Why not let some of the Gazan population to go to the West Bank, there's more room.

The original population density of the Gaza strip was approx 6000/km2

Imagine all these in only a tenth of the land, it'll be standing room only. How do they produce food? Is there water? Medical? Sewage? Power?

I'll put good odds that the answer to those is no.

 

[AlRums]

How is that a reason to refuse refugees?

Give a good reason why Egypt should be forced to accept anybody, Muslim or Jew, forced off their ancestral grounds by invaders

 

[Welsh Exile]

Since you used the word concentrate I should think we have the makings of a concentration camp.

What do you think the average person thinks of when they hear the words concentration camp? Do you think they think it's what the Brits in the Boer war invented them for (which were still horrendous) or do you think they think of Auschwitz?

This is what I find a bit gross about the comparison to be honest. But look, if we see them operate them like we did in the Boer war then we're going to see hundreds of thousands die and if that happens we should be sending in troops to stop Israel to be honest.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Give a good reason why Egypt should be forced to accept anybody, Muslim or Jew, forced off their ancestral grounds by invaders

You can make that same argument for any country and any refugee. No one is saying they should be forced to do anything anyway.