A Political Thread

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

God this thread has become a **** show since i stopped posting in it.

Mod me and I shall rule this thread with no mercy.

Ser Tigs Man, Mod in the North, Lord of Tigsland.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Others have been banned or at least suspended for far far less than Sky. I mean we are talking about excusing nazism, the KKK and murder... This isn't just a case of a forum spat, this is genuinely vile.

 

[die_mole]

Ignoring bigotry is an action made by those either too scared, apathetic, or lazy to do something.

However, there is no point engaging in arguments with these sociopaths. Once you tell them they are wrong one you aren't going to change their minds. They are so deep in their alternative reality it's like an acid trip that never stopped.

Also like to add that similar to terrorist attacks by other groups, Charlottesville (the murder particularly) was an act of war against those of us that care about others. The message was clear; if you care, they will attack you.

 

[McTallshort]

I believe myself and Ncurd were both given bans for a row we had last year and not at any point did we suggest LGBT were mentality ill.

Sky needs banning.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I've not read the whole thread because I'm at work I can only flit in and out, if anyone is flagrantly breaking the rules then please report the post(s) so that it gets flagged up for the staff
I'm dealing with it now

 

[ncurd]

I believe myself and Ncurd were both given bans for a row we had last year and not at any point did we suggest LGBT were mentality ill.

Sky needs banning.

I've not received a ban....yet but generally because I have the good sense to back off as soon as I receive a warning (public or private). Whilst I've disagreed vehemently with tallshort in the past and said things I shouldn't of towards him I don't think he's ever hit ban territory for his opinions.

I just want to note last week when he said it during the google talk, I did report him both times I felt his comments were homophobic. Personally I know this thread we get away with a lot more than we do in the rest of the forum but people have been banned for what they've said it in it before and this by far the worst there's reason many of us resorted to the ignore stick (personally I find it hard to keep it going but at least it stops me reading it when I don't want to).

 

[The Jones Boy]

Mod me and I shall rule this thread with no mercy.

Ser Tigs Man, Mod in the North, Lord of Tigsland.

Oh dear, Tigs as a Mod, it will become a very ugly, flairless sanctuary for the stalwart fans of Leicester rugby (they're almost in double figures now) to come and pay homage.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Jeez, bad news from Barcelona. Sad thing is it was only a matter of where and when next.

 

[ncurd]

Jeez, bad news from Barcelona. Sad thing is it was only a matter of where and when next.

Is just wish assholes would stop driving into people.....

 

[The Jones Boy]

Low tech attacks against soft targets are the modus operandi for Isis.

 

[The Jones Boy]

I stumbled across this, it was one of the key ingredients Skyliner was using to support his argument that Antifa was evil etc...

Made me giggle.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...o-fake-not-real-charlottesville-a7900786.html

 

[The Jones Boy]

I see they caught the little bas---d...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ot-subirats-latest-news-updates-a7905081.html

 

[Which Tyler]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41020779

Trump says he is willing to 'close government' to build Mexico wall

...

What did he say about Charlottesville?

President Trump attacked the media in the campaign-style speech, saying reporters had misrepresented his "perfect" words in the wake of the violence in Charlottesville, where Heather Heyer was killed after a car ploughed into a crowd of people protesting against far-right demonstrators including neo-Nazis.

He accused "truly dishonest people in the media and the fake media" of "trying to take away our history and heritage" because, he said, they "don't like our country".

...

What other topics came up?

Nafta: The US, Mexico and Canada have begun talks on revising their trade deal, and negotiators are due to meet again on 1 September. But Mr Trump said he thought he would "probably end up terminating Nafta"

North Korea: He sounded hopeful about a reduction in tensions. Referring to North Korean leader Kim Jong-un, Mr Trump said: "I respect the fact that he is starting to respect us." He added: "And maybe - probably not, but maybe - something positive can come about"

Sheriff Joe Arpaio: The US president hinted he would pardon the controversial former Arizona sheriff, who rose to national prominence because of his tough stance against illegal immigration. He said that Joe Arpaio - who was found guilty of criminal contempt in July over his detention of migrants - "is going to be just fine", but he would not yet formally pardon him because "I don't want to cause any controversy"

 

[The Jones Boy]

Cue Pink Floyd and...

All in all...

Trumps just a d-ick, with a wall.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Republicans should love that, they got a hard on every time a government shutdown was on the cards under Obama.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Fear not, I'm not intending to bang this drum for the next 12 months. But here is a timely example of why Ulster fans should be very nervous, even if Jackson and Olding did nothing illegal. A man sentenced to 7 years for a fictitious rape based purely on the word of a raging fantacist.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-41037826

I cannot think of a single non-sexual offence where you can be charged and convicted based solely on the word of 1 person and with no corroborating medical or forensic evidence.

Can you imagine being labelled a rapist publicly infront of your family, friends and community and then thrown into jail for up to 7 years for an offence you didn't commit and for which you knew there was no evidence that you had committed it? You'd be mentally ruined for life. Just collateral damage for the legal system apparently, so I guess we just have to suck it up.

 

[die_mole]

Fear not, I'm not intending to bang this drum for the next 12 months. But here is a timely example of why Ulster fans should be very nervous, even if Jackson and Olding did nothing illegal. A man sentenced to 7 years for a fictitious rape based purely on the word of a raging fantacist.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-41037826

I cannot think of a single non-sexual offence where you can be charged and convicted based solely on the word of 1 person and with no corroborating medical or forensic evidence.

Can you imagine being labelled a rapist publicly infront of your family, friends and community and then thrown into jail for up to 7 years for an offence you didn't commit and for which you knew there was no evidence that you had committed it? You'd be mentally ruined for life. Just collateral damage for the legal system apparently, so I guess we just have to suck it up.

Do you consider every rape accuser to be a liar or only when they are accusing a rugby player?

Rapists get off much more than false accusations are even made, let alone get a conviction.

And plenty of crimes can get a conviction off of one person, a police officer. And I see no reason to trust police more than your average women.

And the idea that rape belongs in a "political thread" is disgusting, maybe we can create an MRA one for you.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Do you consider every rape accuser to be a liar or only when they are accusing a rugby player?

Rapists get off much more than false accusations are even made, let alone get a conviction.

And plenty of crimes can get a conviction off of one person, a police officer. And I see no reason to trust police more than your average women.

And the idea that rape belongs in a "political thread" is disgusting, maybe we can create an MRA one for you.

Apoligies if my wording caused offence. I think anyone that knew me would struggle to conclude I am anything other than even handed in most matters, or that I have mummy and daddy issues. And the political thread seemed the most suitable for legal matters. If a mod considers it inappropriate then by all means remove it.

Yes, from my experience of the legal system in the UK more men who probably did it will be found not guilty than the innocent who will be wrongfully convicted. Whilst unfortunate, that is how evidence and court cases should work. If there is sufficient evidence then convict, if not, then don't. But an allegation of rape in the U.K. means the suspect will almost certainly be charged, and consequently have their name publicised on a court list as soon as a direct result which newspapers can then publish details of. Im not some rabid idiot, I have a degree of knowledge of the legal system (and a clean record).

My anger is at the changes to the legal system (politically driven) made around 10-15 years ago that created the situation where such insecure convictions are utterly predictable.

And in the U.K. we have corroboration, so you will need a second police officer in cases of "he said, she said". It is inbuilt to the legal system and so nobody can be convicted solely on the word of a single police officer. They must be double crewed or have a separate strand of evidence which implicates the suspect in addition to a single officers statement.

Like I say, this rule of corroboration applies to police officers, but these rules do not apply to those who make false allegations in matters of sexual offences only. My point being, watch the Ulster players trial closely and don't be surprised if young me lose years of their lives off the back of one person's word and the judgement of a socially and sexually conservative middle aged jury. If there is clear evidence that they have taken advantage of a lass who was medically incapable of giving consent then I'll be the first to applaud the justice system for securing a conviction.

This isnt sexism. This is also increasingly a male on male issue with guys who are insecure about "coming out" and would sooner make an allegation of being drugged and raped than admit to engaging in consensual sexual activity with another man.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Here is a balanced article on the matter including discussion of the difficulties that rape victims face in finding the courage to put themselves through the trauma of a court case.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.sc...-false-rape-charges-in-scotland-1-2602662/amp

It also points out that statistical estimates from a study of Scotland in 2005 showed that 8% of rape allegations were false. That is a conservative estimate and not a trivial number. False allegations of rape are far rarer than genuine ones, but I am told that they are an everyday part of police life. If you know an officer, ask them about it.

My argument is that changes made after 2005 have made it far more likely for that 8% to go to trial and result in a conviction. And that that is a shocking state of affairs.

 

[ncurd]

Personally,

This something to be decided by judges and the laws and I prefer not to speculate on court cases without full detail, this person was trash but I don't want actual victims not to get help because her and/or peoples perception of victims. I'd struggle as a juror to convict anyone on one persons say so but this case almost certainly had expert witnesses and evidence that swayed them not just the 'victims' testomony this is pretty much held up by the low conviction rate for rape cases.

Ultimately the only change to the system I'd make is to allow someone charged of a serious crime to remain anonmynous until convicted but its slight fraught with issues in itself if there is fear the person will offend again if they are not known.

Its an extremely complex/emotive subject of which there will never be a perfect answer. But belive me we as a society have a terrible attitude towards potential victims.

The problem with serial and pathological lier like this woman though is they are extremely good and making people believe them. It goes to the extent that they will actually convince themselves the lie is true and refuse utterly to concede when shown the truth. Seriously though whilst this one case is disturbing don't let it sway you that a woman (or anyone) alleging rape/sexual assault should not be taken with the upmost seriousness.