A Political Thread

Discussion in 'The Clubhouse Bar' started by Draggs, Jan 14, 2015.

  1. ragerancher

    ragerancher Senior Member

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    Change and adapt. The high street cannot compete with online so it needs to offer services that you can't get online (ie you go out for an experience, not to get goods). Restaurants, cafes, pubs etc all need to change their game and that is what the high street will be. Where I live the high street is essentially a load of places to eat and drink, not buy things.
     
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  3. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Did the same thing Kodak/Blockbuster did and failed to adapt to a new market because the profits weren't as high, and then when their current place started to erode it was too late to catch up.

    It's a shame that 2000ish people are losing their jobs but this is what happens as the world evolves.
     
  4. The_Blindside

    The_Blindside Senior Member

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    Yeah a change of thinking is definitely needed. A lot of UK high streets just contain the same chain of shops and I think a lot of town centres lack any distinct character. There is an over supply of shops, which aren’t needed. People will always want to get out of the house and go eat, meet up drink etc but defo need a change of thinking of what the town centre is for.

    Intu Watford have just opened a new section where Charter place used to be. New cinema (£12. for an adult ticket/£17/ for IMAX- WTF?) and bowling alley. But places like Debenhams, super dry and Jack Wills newly opened will face hard times ahead.

    This £675M communities fund is never going to be enough to regenerate town centres. https://www.theguardian.com/busines...re-of-675m-fund-to-invigorate-uk-high-streets
     
  5. Reiser99

    Reiser99 Senior Member

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    Simple fact is that the highstreet isn't dying, it's dead and people make it move to pretend it's still alive. I think they need to make community spaces based around activities with service shops around. Having open green spaces to relax with things like cinemas, climbing walls, skate parks etc... which are supported by restaurants, hair dressers etc...

    Stores like HMV have no future so why pretend otherwise. The problem was the high street and big shopping centres were doing so well before online retail that they were seen as a safe bet and so we got far more of them than we ever needed. Online retail then completely took the rug and floor out from under them before piling the rest of the house on top to bury them. Now you have shops which will never be used again because the market is not there and never will be.
     
  6. The_Blindside

    The_Blindside Senior Member

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    Yeah agree this is much more about than HMV dying; it the long term decline of the high street. Market forces will force those stores which provide services and goods which are not needed anymore to shut, but it seems that the town centre can’t just be driven by market forces any more . HMV is the last of the Virgin/Zavvi, Tower records and Our Price type shops, so no real surprise it’ll close. Unless we’re going to change town centres into residential areas again served by a few shops/ restaurants, Gyms, which is where I see it going in the next 50 years.

    In terms of goods the future will be more amazon like services where the goods are held in massive warehouses and technology will mean we view and try these on in the virtual world using AI before choosing them to be delivered/take them back etc. Ie a more advanced version of things now.

    I can see cinemas going into long term decline again if for anything else the content on offer is just not there anymore and the people preferring to stream content at home on massive 50plus inch screens. Ticket prices are just rediculous.
     
  7. ncurd

    ncurd Senior Member

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    Cinema going just had it's best year since 2002

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/0...ovie-criticism/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

    I think that's mainly down to l,

    A) A great time for films my wife and I saw something like 30 different films this year. And we didn't see everything we wanted to see.

    B) Cinema unlimited cards, people are quite happy to pay a subscription and go as often as they like. It appearance other groups have caught up with Cineworld on this front.

    B is also the reason that streaming has overtaken physical sales from places like HMV. People's buying habits seam to prefer subscription based when in come to media content to widen what is available.

    TBH it's amazing HMV lasted this long.

    The only purpose of physical retail is if you need to check out the product before you buy it. So clothing will always have a place. There is an effort to make these places a social area but that struggles In just heard of a board game cafe closing in Bournemouth this weekend.


    One of.the issues is high rent many places are moving from the high street to retail parks. Which offers far more square footage.


    Honestly the real question we need to ask, why are we trying to save the high street? Because as far as I can tell there seams to be no good reason.
     
  8. Which Tyler

    Which Tyler Senior Member

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    Nostalgia; because the past is obviously the way things SHOULD be in a functioning society - see also Brexit, and Britain's complete inability to be a forward looking nation.
     
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  9. Bruce_ma_goose

    Bruce_ma_goose Senior Member

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    I don't know if you guys are talking about just cities, or also towns. But I think there are loads of advantages socially and economically to having retail outlets in both rather than these identikit, out-of-town retail parks.

    i) access to shops for people without cars and/or internet (including elderly) - also assists with "click and collect"
    ii) maintaining asthetics of older buildings rather than gutting them or demolishing them for flats. "Heritage" is not a dirty word.
    iii) encourage footfall to the benefit of other businesses in service sector and essential services like bank, post office, library, town hall etc
    iv) reduce suburban sprawl by utilising existing sites rather than digging up green belt.
    v) the social aspect of a populace using their urban spaces and, as a result of proximity, their parks, museums etc
    vi) be a more inviting location for domestic and international tourist euros.
    vii) the mental health damage of social isolation for those living alone if we become online only.
    viii) having individual items delivered to your house is inefficient in terms of pollution compared to a shopping trip into town using mass transit.

    I appreciate I'm farting against thunder with this viewpoint in the present world with global economic realities, but arguments can be made. I'll happily pay 10% more for an item if it means using a shop in my locality.
     
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  10. Reiser99

    Reiser99 Senior Member

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    I honestly don't have all the data for how retail parks, large shopping centres or high streets are all doing, but as far as I'm aware, the only places doing well are those that also have other activities nearby. For example places with climbing walls or play areas for children etc...
    The problem is that retail and shops was seen as a safe investment 20-30 years ago and so the country was flooded with shops to the point where there are far more than the needs of the people. Combined with online shopping it means that all these shops are fighting over a smaller share of the market. I agree there still needs to be some shops and services, but it does need to be scaled back and shopping centres within towns should be turned into community areas that combine social and shopping activities. It would take a huge amount of effort, but it could be done.

    On a couple of your points (if I don't mention it then I agree with yours)
    ii) I understand this, but some older buildings just waste space and in relation to point viii are more polluting as they require more energy to heat and maintain etc. I wouldn't want them replaced with flats, but I would demolish older buildings to create more green spaces in central locations that towns are then build around.
    viii) I can see this point too, but with the amount of shops, shopping centres, retail parks, surely it's more efficient than the amount of stores that have goods delivered and then sent back when they haven't been sold etc...The amount of lorries moving around the country is huge.

    I think overall you are not too far away from other points of view, it's more the balance of how much retail is enough, how radically do you change urban centres etc... I think I would be more radical, but then I know I am very extreme in some view points and life doesn't work like that.
     
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  11. Tallshort

    Tallshort Senior Member

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    Need to level the playing field. Amazon pay no tax, pay their employees a slave wage (which is subsidised by the tax payer) and pay brown field rates.

    Unless something is done Mr Bezos billions will keep rolling in and our high streets will keep dying
     
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  12. Tallshort

    Tallshort Senior Member

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    Honestly the real question we need to ask, why are we trying to save the high street? Because as far as I can tell there seams to be no good reason.
    Yeah really forward looking.

    Want to run your own retail business? Sorry its been decided that only Amazon are allowed to do that now. Stop being nostaligic and fall in line.
     
  13. ncurd

    ncurd Senior Member

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    Amazon aren't the only online retailer, also many use amazon as storefront for their goods.

    I agree about tax though.
     
  14. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Can't remember the last time I went into a town centre/to a physical shop to buy something.

    Supermarkets carry everything these days if you need it on the day, if you can wait until morning then the internet is always better.

    It's a shame but I'm not paying higher prices for the inconvenience of going into a town centre with ****/over priced parking
     
  15. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Senior Member

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    Waterstones shows the High street is still viable.

    HMV went the hipster route with Vinyl, BUT didn't figure that people would rather go to a proper vinyl store (Of which there is many now) and get the full experience and pay a good price for a used record than go to a pretty boring shop.

    I love my Vinyl stuff and HMV is always too much for stuff I can get cheaper at my local record shop, who I know well and will hold and contact me should something come in, HMV doesn't do that.

    Waterstones shows that if you give the local store full control it provides a more richer experience allowing the shops to tailor to the area and it's people I genuinely love my local Waterstones and it always seems busy.
     
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  16. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Senior Member

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    Got my 26-30 Railcard!!!
    I feel young again.
     
  17. ncurd

    ncurd Senior Member

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    I just saw a band celebrating their 40th anniversary, realised that's only 5 years of within lifetime now......I feel old.
     
  18. Which Tyler

    Which Tyler Senior Member

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    Def Leppard?
     
  19. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Senior Member

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    Madness?


    Mind I feel old when Gorillaz feel good is played in the golden oldies sections, like WTF.
     
  20. Tallshort

    Tallshort Senior Member

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    What! Its 3 years after I was born
     
  21. ncurd

    ncurd Senior Member

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    Its okay Grandad.
     
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