A Political Thread

Discussion in 'The Clubhouse Bar' started by Draggs, Jan 14, 2015.

  1. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Senior Member

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    Lib Dems will never be as big as Labour currently.
    Maybe in 20 years time when the generations have changed.
     
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  3. ncurd

    ncurd Senior Member

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    Aye, the only real hope is to be a proper block again that has actual influence.

    I think the days of Blair thumping majorities are long gone mind.
     
  4. Reiser99

    Reiser99 Senior Member

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    Our whole electoral system needs a complete reform. Unfortunately when we did have a vote on changing the system the Conservatives made sure only one system other than first past the post was on the ballot and that it was one which was unfeasible. They were never actually open to a genuine discussion on improving democracy because it would have hit them harder. People keep saying that if Brexit doesn't happen it will destroy trust in democracy, but it's been happening for years. The only real surprise is that people genuinely seem to think it's something new with Brexit when it's existed for years.
     
  5. ragerancher

    ragerancher Senior Member

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    I'm staggered how people can sit and talk about how incompetent the EU is... Have they seen our government? They have failed in just about everything they have tried to do, apart from ******* over the poor.

    We leave and our political system will still be stuck in the quagmire with nobody providing any direction of how we would develop to take advantage of the situation. It's all very well promising great British opportunities but can they seriously see any in our political system delivering it? The Mogg and Johnson supporters are living in lala land. Since when have either of those shown any competence? I'm staggered at how some people desperately seem to want to vote in the old elite, especially when those same people are working class and talk about how politicians don't relate to them.

    They have appealed to the nationalism, that is all that matters for that segment of the electorate. Bang the nationalism drum and a sizeable chunk of people will follow you no matter how much of a **** or how incompetent you are.
     
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  6. ncurd

    ncurd Senior Member

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    Speaker in hot water but once May's deal is voted down the government is required to table Plan B by the end of next week.
     
  7. The Oggmonster

    The Oggmonster Senior Member

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    I think the manner of next week's defeat is as significant as the result itself. It needs to be a resounding defeat (which it most likely will be) otherwise they'll make some wording changes and try and get it through again and again.

    Extending Article 50 is inevitable and it sounds as though there is a desire in Parliament to prevent crashing out without a deal which begs the question why both 'No deal' or 'May's deal' would be options in a second ref when one will be hammered in Parliament and the other will be confirmed as a non option. I wonder which big name will be first to step forward and push for a second ref after next week's vote given that May has confirmed there will be no snap GE.
     
  8. Which Tyler

    Which Tyler Senior Member

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    We've heard that before, along with many other things that sudo never happen the week before they happened
     
  9. The Oggmonster

    The Oggmonster Senior Member

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    Well she said she won't run at the next GE and so this U turn would result in her being out on her ear.
     
  10. Bruce_ma_goose

    Bruce_ma_goose Senior Member

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    In theory it is healthy what is happening in Westminster. There are many democracies where you act like adults and, through debate and compromise, you arrive at a majority.

    Unfortunately Westminster is so used to having artificial majorities that they can't break the habit of braying like idiots and trying to impose their preference through force of will and superior numbers. So it all ends up looking like the mess it currently is, with nobody willing to modify their standpoint one iota in the interests of society and commerce.

    I still have absolutely no idea how this will end. A fresh GE must be the strong favourite though as all alternatives seem impossible. Other than suspending Article 50 until the end of this parliament, which would be absurd.
     
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  11. Amiga500

    Amiga500 Senior Member

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    He was just right.

    Given the way the witch has acted with this bill - then he was the only person that could forcibly light a fire under her ass. Otherwise it would have been 21 days and the same deal only presented in a different font size.
     
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  12. ragerancher

    ragerancher Senior Member

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    Parliament is built as an adversarial political system, these nearly always boil down to 2 party systems where all one side has to do is say they aren't the other side. They are damaging to democracies. These same systems also love to attack coalitions, because apparently the idea of banding together with people who have similar views but aren't in your party and hammering together acceptable compromises and agreed ground is a bad thing. Proportional representation goes some way to helping by at least reducing the ability to assume your will get votes for simply not being the other party, much harder to do when there is more choice.
     
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  13. The_Blindside

    The_Blindside Senior Member

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    80C87B58-FEC4-43F2-A135-C16E77D1C6AD.jpeg
     
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  14. The_Blindside

    The_Blindside Senior Member

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    John Major in the ST and talking sense.
     
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  15. The Oggmonster

    The Oggmonster Senior Member

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    Just watching Corbyn on Andrew Marr. He would be an absolute embarrassment of a PM. Labour members need to wake up, smell the coffee and get rid.
     
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  16. Tallshort

    Tallshort Senior Member

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    What do you expect? He was voted in by the party members against the advice of its MP's. He and his supporters have been very ruthless with those MP's who are not in agreement with him and he has never been a supporter of the EU/EEC/Common market.

    How did anyone think that Corbyn was the answer to their Pro EU prayers? That a man who made a career of being in the background was ever going to have the ability to hold a government to account, even a tragically weak one like we have now?

    Very well meaning, naive people think Corbyn is the man to change things for the better but he just doesn't have the minerals or intellect to be an effective opposition leader or effective PM.
     
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  17. The Oggmonster

    The Oggmonster Senior Member

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    Fishing for an argument are we? Not taking the bait.
     
  18. Tallshort

    Tallshort Senior Member

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    Oh grow up. When was I disagreeing with you?
     
  19. Amiga500

    Amiga500 Senior Member

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    I don't see the problem with that.

    Representative democracy in a microcosm.

    Given the behaviour of many of those MPs and their point blank refusal to accept the vote of the Labour membership, I cannot blame them.


    This is probably the biggest problem at the moment.

    While him not having a strong personal opinion contrary to the govt does not bother me (as it shouldn't for anyone) - its not his job (or the job of any politician IMO) to present his (their) personal opinion. At the labour convention, they agreed a party position - and its his job to represent that to the best of his ability.


    Again, not a problem for me.

    I'm tired of seeing forked tongued graduands of history and/or politics (usually via Eton) as leaders. Unfortunately Corbyn isn't much better off in this regard, basically a background of running around various trade unions.

    If only we could find some real professionals (i.e. engineers, scientists, medical professionals) that'd be happy to run things. I suppose their problem would be avoiding getting dragged down to the gutter by the "professional" politicians.


    Quite possibly true. I think he'll never be elected as PM as too many are too afraid of taking the chance on him - *in case* he is a disaster - even if the majority would broadly agree with what he has said he'd want to do at.
     
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  20. ragerancher

    ragerancher Senior Member

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    This. Unfortunately the people who would likely be the most competent to run the country are also some of the people with the least interest in doing so. Politics is for people who are pushy and convinced of their own superiority, not for people who try to take a reasoned, evidence based approach to problems. When facts contradict what an engineer, doctor or scientist would like to be true, they are forced to simply accept what the facts are telling them. When that happens with a politician, they dismiss it.

    Ideally this is how the House of Lords SHOULD be working, a bunch of professionals detached from the politics who can act as a sanity check on government. Reality of course is that it's a load of bull.
     
  21. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Isn't there a line from....Game of Thrones? Lord of the Rings?
    Saying the one most suited to wear the crown is the one that doesn't want to.
     
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