A Political Thread

[Which Tyler]

Tories are complaining that they didn't understand the consequences of their vote last week, and that they might have voted differently if they'd known. Therefore they should be allowed to vote again.
Not the public though, that would be totally undemocratic...

 

[Amiga500]

Tories are complaining that they didn't understand the consequences of their vote last week, and that they might have voted differently if they'd known. Therefore they should be allowed to vote again.
Not the public though, that would be totally undemocratic...

Who were these people? Name and shame please.

How in the name of sweet f__k did they not "understand the consequences of their vote last week"? Its not as if this whole Brexit thing has suddenly f__king snuck up on them!

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Hasn't Bercow stopped the chances of that?

 

[Al Bangor]

As far as politics are concerned here in the states, I can't stand Trump. He's an embarrassment to our nation and the free world. Twitter may miss him, but I won't.

 

[User1245]

Best thing to come out of Brexit

 

[Amiga500]

haha, very good!

 

[truthteller]

As far as politics are concerned here in the states, I can't stand Trump. He's an embarrassment to our nation and the free world. Twitter may miss him, but I won't.

hes been massively successful with the economy, the stock market , unemployment and wages..hes also pressed the korean manbaby to dismantle a nuclear missile facility....to just suggest hes all bad is plain wrong. Id expect that from the PC thught police of the left wing liberal BBC but not from joe public. Trump has done some good things amongst the chaos

 

[truthteller]

little john has lost the plot here....hes basically destroyed any remaining chance of a deal being agreed. hes way beyond his remit. this will achieve nothing

 

[Amiga500]

little john has lost the plot here....hes basically destroyed any remaining chance of a deal being agreed. hes way beyond his remit. this will achieve nothing

Whatever about the rest of what you've said - but he is most definitely within his remit and backed up by over 400 years of precedent.


He has not said no to a vote on a deal - he has said no to another vote on the same deal which was rejected in the 4th biggest government defeat ever - and that deal was a minor tweak on the deal that was rejected in the biggest government ever.

How anyone can support that deal being brought back before the house in any guise is beyond me.



I'm sure the same folks would probably reject calls for a second referendum.

For reference:
MV1: 68% Against, 32% For
MV2: 62% Against, 38% For
Referendum: 52% For, 48% Against

Yet it is OK to rerun the "Meaningful Votes" and not the referendum?

 

[Reiser99]

Whatever about the rest of what you've said - but he is most definitely within his remit and backed up by over 400 years of precedent.

Don't inform Truthteller of facts that contradict his argument you heathen! Don't you know his opinion is sacred and ordained by God almighty!

 

[truthteller]

there is no precedent this has never happened before

 

[truthteller]

Don't inform Truthteller of facts that contradict his argument you heathen! Don't you know his opinion is sacred and ordained by God almighty!

Dont preach to me about God, this is a secular debate

 

[Amiga500]

there is no precedent this has never happened before

Well John Bercow was able to point to the decisions made by I believe 6 previous speakers down through time.

Thus, plenty of precedent.



Anywayz, I'm still blinging along to Snoop Mogg!

 

[truthteller]

nope no precedent, there has never been a brexit whatever ancient ruling this controversial midget is clinging it is totally inappropriate and irrelevant, the man is standing in the way of democracy and destroying the last hope of clearing up this fiasco...he needs a sacking pronto

 

[Amiga500]

nope no precedent, there has never been a brexit whatever ancient ruling this controversial midget is clinging it is totally inappropriate and irrelevant, the man is standing in the way of democracy and destroying the last hope of clearing up this fiasco...he needs a sacking pronto

Away and lick a few windows ye nutcase.

 

[truthteller]

Away and lick a few windows ye nutcase.

go double your medication loony tune

 

[ncurd]

nope no precedent, there has never been a brexit whatever ancient ruling this controversial midget is clinging it is totally inappropriate and irrelevant, the man is standing in the way of democracy and destroying the last hope of clearing up this fiasco...he needs a sacking pronto

I don't think you understand precedence or parliamentary procedure.

It doesn't matter that this bill has historical importance or that there never been Brexit before. The government simply isn't allowed to keep putting any bill without significant change after the commons has rejected it during a sitting. And there's simple reasoning behind that the government could call for 20 votes a days for the next 10 days until they got the answer they wanted, that stops the business of the commons beyond that bill and MPs not doing their jobs outside of commons.

Anyway I thought parliamentary sovereignty was one of things Brexiteers cared about most. This is it in actions, British laws, set by British MPs under the rules of a sovereign parliament.

 

[General Melchett]

I see some hard Brexiteers have started to pressurise Bercow already which is disgraceful. They tried to threaten him before by denying him a peerage. One is even suggesting to hold a vote to ignore his statement yesterday. The Brexiteers had better not hang him out to dry in the media as there are a lot of nutters out there and before you know it he'll be getting personal threats.

The speaker is responsible for ensuring that parliamentary procedures are followed and complied with, not the Government. If the Government attempt to overrule him then that in itself would be an abuse of power and constitutionally unacceptable. The Bank of England are independent from the Government and responsible for setting interest rates. Imagine if the Government suddenly decided ignore interest rate changes set by the BoE and set their own.

Some MPs also saying they would have voted differently had they known there would not be another meaningful vote. Well I'm afraid that's tough luck. It's totally unreasonable to expect the speaker to warn them before the last vote as it's not him who wants to keep putting the same deal through again and again.

 

[ncurd]

Why would the speaker have warned them? MV2 was substantially different for the reasons Bercow said. That was Tuesday.
The no-deal vote was put before him an he accepted it. On Wednesday
The extend article 50 vote which explicitly said about MV3 was on Thursday. Until Thursday Bercow and everyone else had no idea the government were going to attempt MV3 this week. He's not a bloody mind reader.

 

[Which Tyler]

Anyway I thought parliamentary sovereignty was one of things Brexiteers cared about most. This is it in actions, British laws, set by British MPs under the rules of a sovereign parliament.

You must have missed that whole Gina Miller thing if you thought that.
Winning is all they care about "You lost, get over it" "She should have her head cut off and left outside Buckingham Palace" "Parliament should vote as many times as they need to get the right answer - the people should not" "Cabinet should be sovereign, not parliament"...



Oh, and tories complaining about Bercow - just another example of their ignorance and distain for the democractic process. Their complaints that he's not helping the government are simply complaints that he's actually doing his job - he's supposed to be neutral and to ensure the sovereigny of parliament (not the government) and enforce parliamentary process and precedent.
Prerogation may be legal - but it's an example of the las being an ass. Surely the spirit of that wasn't to side-step the constitution so that the government can do what it wants even when it's not allowed.
Now, if they chose to vote and suspend the standing order outlined by Bercow - then that's... fine I guess; at least it's democratic, and an argument could be made for this being one of the most important decisions a peace-time parliament has ever made. However, I'm pretty confident that such a motion would grab yet another top-5 defeat for May.