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The Oggmonster said:
due to the lack of proportional representation.
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Thats true for a GE not for the European Elections which is why we keep sending crackpots who don't engage and therefore say the European parliment is a joke (because we treat it as such). If people didn't treat anything other than a GE as a means of protest we wouldn't be in this mess...

Of course FPTP causes that to happen as people feel they have to back a side who can win in a GE
 
ncurd said:
Thats true for a GE not for the European Elections which is why we keep sending crackpots who don't engage and therefore say the European parliment is a joke (because we treat it as such). If people didn't treat anything other than a GE as a means of protest we wouldn't be in this mess...

Of course FPTP causes that to happen as people feel they have to back a side who can win in a GE
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E.U elections could be used as an indicator of where people stand in Europe, but again for some people the issue is not just Brexit, so it's not going to be another indicator of the referendum. Won't stop people using it as that though.

For me a G.E is worse, because while Brexit is the big issue, it's not the only issue. Also as long as FPTP exists, my vote is worthless. I'm in a strong Conservative held area. I won't vote for them, but the MP will be reelected and that constituency will count as a leave vote.
 
ncurd said:
Thats true for a GE not for the European Elections which is why we keep sending crackpots who don't engage and therefore say the European parliment is a joke (because we treat it as such). If people didn't treat anything other than a GE as a means of protest we wouldn't be in this mess...

Of course FPTP causes that to happen as people feel they have to back a side who can win in a GE
Click to expand...

Yeah I was thinking about the next General Election which will probably happen within a year assuming the next Tory leader calls one quickly in an attempt to get a majority. I can see people using the forthcoming Euro elections as a stage to voice their disgust at the establishment.

I was watching an interview with Lord Kerr earlier who wrote article 50 and he said the 2016 protest vote wasn't all about EU membership - it was also about austerity and one or two other things which strengthens the case to go back to the people.
 
Nigel Farage has just launched the 'Brexit Party' with the sister of JRM one of the headline acts
 
Part of me really wants to get involved this time, but I just don't see any remain politicians with the same charisma or passion to motivate the country. Instead it's mainly grass roots stuff such as Led By Donkeys. There will still be too many people who don't care about the facts and will vote for that twat just on misguided principle and a ridiculous misplaced sense of nationalism.
 
Reiser99 said:
Part of me really wants to get involved this time, but I just don't see any remain politicians with the same charisma or passion to motivate the country. Instead it's mainly grass roots stuff such as Led By Donkeys. There will still be too many people who don't care about the facts and will vote for that twat just on misguided principle and a ridiculous misplaced sense of nationalism.
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Now that both main parties have gravitated to the extreme left and right, there's a gaping hole in the middle of the British political spectrum. The question is who will best fill it. Change UK is a meh name and hasn't really got off the ground yet as a political force. The Lib Dems are in need of serious renewal and are still paying the price for getting in bed with the Tories. They also have an ageing leader who has confirmed he's on the way out. The Tories are more divided than ever and won't move to centre right anytime soon as long as the ERG are there. Labour could go centre left fairly quickly if they could somehow replace Corbyn with a younger more dynamic centre left candidate.

Farage is just a gobshite.
 
Something has just dawned on me. If we look at the facts - Farage and JRM are good pals which is backed up by JRM repeatedly appearing on Farage's radio show. JRM's sister gets unveiled at the Brexit party launch. My feeling is that this new Brexit party is just a means up sweeping up all Tory Brexiteer protest votes which would otherwise have gone to the other political parties. It wouldn't surprise me at all if JRM has a behind the scene role with this Brexit party which spreads the ERG's influence across two political parties - the Tories and the Brexit party.

It also gives the ERG a voice in Brussels with Brexit party MEPs and in the event that they spring a surprise a win a few seats at the next GE an obvious coalition partner for the Tories.
 
Insane, isn't it?

Everything it's survived in the past almost 1000 years and it's gone


Edit: apparently they managed to save the main structure of the cathedral, so they'll be able to rebuild on that

Double edit: they removed the statues from the spire last week so they're all saved, so it's nowhere near as bad as first thought, thankfully
 
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In my mind I just imagine some french scaffolder smoking in a stereotypically french way throwing away the used cigarette and then "sacre bleu!"

Can you imagine the **** someone will get if it is finfo the fire was due to poor practice or negligence.
 
Need to get my but into gear to see some of these historical places really.

Especially Greece.
You can take it for granted how long these places of historical value will be here.
 
Tigs Man said:
Need to get my but into gear to see some of these historical places really.

Especially Greece.
You can take it for granted how long these places of historical value will be here.
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Notre Dame is sadly like many of these places far more impressive in person than any picture can really capture.

Sadly with Greece us British can't waltz in and bring the stuff home for restoration any more. Maybe that's what the Brexiteers want us to do by going back to the glory days?
 
Tigs Man said:
Watched the Bernie Fox News town hall thing.

Very impressive by Bernie IMO.
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I saw betting odds recently showing Trump as 6/5 to retain the Presidency next year. Guess it has a lot to do with the uncertainty as to who he'll be going head to head with. Seems that the Democrat race is wide open with plenty runners and riders. Hopefully Hilary steers clear and finally accepts that the public don't like her.
 
Tigs Man said:
Watched the Bernie Fox News town hall thing.

Very impressive by Bernie IMO.
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The Fox host screeching "bUt HOw arE YoU GOinG to pAY 4 iT!" got really irritating, although that is pretty much par for the course as far as Fox news hosts go. Sanders clearly wasn't dodging the question and was getting to the answer but she just kept cutting across him. I don't think he will win but it's good he doesn't try to make excuses for the fact he is wealthy but supports taxing the wealthy. In fact I can't get my head around why people say that's a bad thing. If he was only talking about others paying more (like Trump) then fair enough, it's hypocrisy. He's always stated he'd pay more too though.
 
Typical NA misinformation that has been spread by Drug companies etc by funding Media outlets and Politicians.

Like most Americans don't know the Tax difference between the UK and NA isn't really that much till you start earning around £100K and up.
And if you are earning £12K a year you are tax more in America.

So around I think 20% of Americans would be taxed less if they where in the UK and would have more support in welfare.
But because they are not educated on this they believe the nonsense the 5% spread so they can keep hold of that extra 10-15%.


Insurance is all well and good if you
1. Have a Job that provides it
2. Don't have an illness that they can denied treatment of.

Loads of stories have started coming out of more cases of rejected treatment through insurance
 
Trump will walk the next election. The dems are so bitter theyre still fighting the last election. Theyre still desperately trying to smear trump with the russian nonsense...2 and a half years of that wild goose chase shows american tax payers these politicians dont give a damn about them. They really need to climb down from their high horses and fight on the issues. The trouble is the american economy, the jobs, pensions, stock market, wages are all booming. I give a fair bit of credit for the to obama too as he laid a lot of solid foundations. Trump hasnt messed with obamacare , he hasnt banned muslims, he hasnt started any wars and he seems to have stared down the korean manbaby for now. any sincere politician with any integrity should be pleased with all these things
 
truthteller said:
Trump will walk the next election. The dems are so bitter theyre still fighting the last election. Theyre still desperately trying to smear trump with the russian nonsense...2 and a half years of that wild goose chase shows american tax payers these politicians dont give a damn about them. They really need to climb down from their high horses and fight on the issues. The trouble is the american economy, the jobs, pensions, stock market, wages are all booming. I give a fair bit of credit for the to obama too as he laid a lot of solid foundations. Trump hasnt messed with obamacare , he hasnt banned muslims, he hasnt started any wars and he seems to have stared down the korean manbaby for now. any sincere politician with any integrity should be pleased with all these things
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They were definitely barking up the wrong tree with the Russian interference and it smacked of some desperate attempt to try and use that as an excuse for Hilary's beat down and/or get him impeached. It has backfired spectacularly. In reality any Russian interference paled into insignificance compared with that of say Israel (who have links with Cambridge Analytica) which didn't get a mention. Unless they get their act together quickly the Democrats are essentially gifting Trump another term. He'll keep his base happy when he ringfences cash for the wall, gets Assange locked up around the next campaign, maybe some token shows of strength e.g. getting tough on NATO members to pay their share etc.
 
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