A Political Thread

[ncurd]

It's really a case of who turns out to be the front runner in terms of the nomination. Until that happens it's hard to build a coherent message. It why incumbent Presidents always do better.

Trump's real problem is will people vote for him again? Especially the areas that did and will the Democrats actually show up?

People forget Hillary won the popular vote it was far closer than the electoral college made out. Issue is until late next year we don't really.knownwhats going to happen.

Elizabeth Warren still appears to be the best choice.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

It's really a case of who turns out to be the front runner in terms of the nomination. Until that happens it's hard to build a coherent message. It why incumbent Presidents always do better.

Trump's real problem is will people vote for him again? Especially the areas that did and will the Democrats actually show up?

People forget Hillary won the popular vote it was far closer than the electoral college made out. Issue is until late next year we don't really.knownwhats going to happen.

Elizabeth Warren still appears to be the best choice.

The coherent message in 2020 is that Trump has diminished the office of US presidency to the lowest level the country has ever seen. By voting for him again the American electorate are just endorsing his lying. They voted for Dubya for a second term, so here is your chance to not make the same mistake.

He will point to the Mueller report as absolving him from collusion, but his "no obstruction" can easily be debunked by the same report.

I am not sure Warren is that person to go up against him? Don't know enough about her at this point.

I think the argument that the Democrats should use the report to damage the President in the run up to the election, so he goes in there wounded, should be the way to go rather than impeachment, which will just serve Trump's narrative that he is a victim of a witch hunt, which will just fire up his support base.

 

[Bill]

Were there any on here who were amongst the band who insisted that if Trump became President, the world would end within xx days ?

If so, would they be prepared to say that on reflection it hasn't turned out quite as badly as they thought it would do ?

Not particularly a fan of Trump, but my observation would be that things haven't been quite the catastrophe that some predicted.

A quick check of the odds, which reveals that he's pretty much even money to win again in 2020 would also appear to endorse this narrative.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Not particularly a fan of Trump = 100% A fan of Trump BTW, otherwise I wouldn't make a point exaggerating the worries people who dislike trump had/have.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

People are forgetting the difference between collision and conspiracy. The Muller investigation, contrary to common saying was actually investigating if there had been any conspiracy against the usa. Trump was cleared of this as this is a specific crime with specific requirements to be deemed illegal. The meeting in trump tower still happened with the aim of getting dirt on Hillary, trump being told about wikileaks before it happened still happened, the Russians throwing their support behind trump officially and unofficially still happened, what didn't happen is something that could be called conspiracy.

Also trump was not cleared of trying to obstruct justice. Really the Russia thing was never what trump was going to get caught on, it would be his business dealings or his attempts to obstruct justice, neither of which he's been cleared on. When the democrats face him, they need to drop the Russia side and look at the obstruction and dodgy business side.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

It's ironic that Trump holds himself out as this strong leader, who demands loyalty from those working HOR for him, when them doing the exact opposite saved his hide. If his aides had followed Trump's orders like requesting Mueller's firing and also to cover up that he'd made the order then Trump would likely have been found guilty of criminal obstruction of justice.

But having said that the Mueller report was unlikely to indict a sitting President because of Justice department policy of not doing so (if Mueller really wanted to he would have subpoenaed Trump to answer questions directly in person after he found Trump's written answers unsatisfactory, but Mueller chose not to; something Mueller will probably have to explain to the HOR why he didn't) and an AG appointed by Trump was always going to find in his boss's favour of no Collusion and no obstruction plus redact the report to suit Trump. All Mueller has done is left it for Congress to decide to impeach Trump or not. But that's not going to happen with the houses controlled by the respective two parties. So the next best thing is for the Democrat controlled HOR to use the report to wound Trump over the next 18 months so he enters the 2020 election damaged.

 

[General Melchett]

After Hilary's email scandal, the DUC will have to pick a candidate who is squeaky clean because Trump will leave no stone unturned in an attempt to sling the dirt.

Changing track, I've noticed that it's all gone quiet in Syria lately. Is the conflict over now that IS have been defeated? Has Trump and the west decided to leave Russian backed Assad alone knowing that Putin has his back?

 

[Bada-Bing!]

An appalling attack in Sri Lanka. Over 200 dead and many injured, including British Nationals.

 

[Bill]

Not particularly a fan of Trump = 100% A fan of Trump BTW, otherwise I wouldn't make a point exaggerating the worries people who dislike trump had/have.

That's fake news everybody. FAKE. NEWS.

 

[Bill]

It's ironic that Trump holds himself out as this strong leader, who demands loyalty from those working HOR for him, when them doing the exact opposite saved his hide. If his aides had followed Trump's orders like requesting Mueller's firing and also to cover up that he'd made the order then Trump would likely have been found guilty of criminal obstruction of justice.

But having said that the Mueller report was unlikely to indict a sitting President because of Justice department policy of not doing so (if Mueller really wanted to he would have subpoenaed Trump to answer questions directly in person after he found Trump's written answers unsatisfactory, but Mueller chose not to; something Mueller will probably have to explain to the HOR why he didn't) and an AG appointed by Trump was always going to find in his boss's favour of no Collusion and no obstruction plus redact the report to suit Trump. All Mueller has done is left it for Congress to decide to impeach Trump or not. But that's not going to happen with the houses controlled by the respective two parties. So the next best thing is for the Democrat controlled HOR to use the report to wound Trump over the next 18 months so he enters the 2020 election damaged.

But the investigation's not politically motivated or anything ?

 

[Bill]

After Hilary's email scandal, the DUC will have to pick a candidate who is squeaky clean because Trump will leave no stone unturned in an attempt to sling the dirt.

Changing track, I've noticed that it's all gone quiet in Syria lately. Is the conflict over now that IS have been defeated? Has Trump and the west decided to leave Russian backed Assad alone knowing that Putin has his back?

The fighting finished in earnest about 12 months ago, after the government re-took firstly Dier Ezzor (which had been cut off and under permanent siege by ISIS for over 2 years) on the border of what became Kurdish territory, and then Diera and surrounding areas in the south, and finally the areas around Damascus where the final allegation of chemical weapons abuse was made.

Syria was close to trying to re-take Idlib in the north east, but Russia pressure them out of it after reaching an agreement with Turkey who backed the rebel troops who hold that area.

What's left is a kind of ceasefire with radical muslim groups controlling Idlib, Kurdish dominated groups controlling the north east, and the government controlling the rest of the country.

Unlikely to change for a while if at all.

It's really Russia who is overwhelming responsible for the war ending, as before Aleppo fell to the government 3? years ago, it seemed that the fighting would never end. Putin gets a lot of stick, but he performed miracles in bringing to an end a war which the UN, western powers and their allies were incapable of doing.

 

[Bill]

An appalling attack in Sri Lanka. Over 200 dead and many injured, including British Nationals.

Terrible stuff. Thoughts with all sri lankans and anyone caught up in the disaster.

 

[General Melchett]

The Brexit chaos is back.

The far right Brexiteer Tories will have a 1922 committee meeting later today where they will try and change the Tory party leadership rules in an attempt to get rid of May again after their botched attempt to get rid of her at the end of last year which led to her getting 12 months immunity. These are the same shower who think it would be undemocratic to allow the people to have a final confirmatory vote. The hypocrisy is staggering.

 

[ncurd]

They won't get anywhere I suspect it will take a Tory constitutional change which will be far more complex as these thing are never designed to be easy for obvious reasons. The 12 month immunity is supposed to stop this exact thing from happening.

 

[ncurd]

Yay Trumps coming to visit this wont be controversial at all!

 

[General Melchett]

They won't get anywhere I suspect it will take a Tory constitutional change which will be far more complex as these thing are never designed to be easy for obvious reasons. The 12 month immunity is supposed to stop this exact thing from happening.

Their alternative is a leadership challenge but I guess they have worked out that they (or their man BoJo) don't have the numbers amongst MPs. His only chance of winning is if it goes to the party membership.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

It seems the only time the Tories will get behind a candidate is when they want to stab them in the back...

I despair at British politicians. The collective noun should be an incompetence of politicians.

 

[General Melchett]

It seems the only time the Tories will get behind a candidate is when they want to stab them in the back...

I despair at British politicians. The collective noun should be an incompetence of politicians.

I'm struggling to name any politicians who have genuinely spoken up or acted in the national interest throughout this Brexit chaos. The vast majority are only interested in personal gain, keeping their seat and furthering their own political careers.

Yet many of them still claim they are trying to free us from those nasty unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I'm struggling to name any politicians who have genuinely spoken up or acted in the national interest throughout this Brexit chaos. The vast majority are only interested in personal gain, keeping their seat and furthering their own political careers.

Yet many of them still claim they are trying to free us from those nasty unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

Maybe some unelected bureaucrats isn't such a bad idea when you look at the calibre of people being elected into office in this country. Amazing isn't it how the unwieldy, bureaucratic, unelected mess of the EU was able to come together to form a coherent and unified position but us plucky Brits with the mandate of the referendum and fighting for the little guy have utterly failed in every aspect of the negotiations.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...limbo-new-parties-politics-insurgent-outsider

This article makes a good point about the state we're in atm and the two new parties, especially Change UK. Plus the dearth of the talent pool at Westminster. I can't remember such a poor bunch in my life time.