No, i really hate him.
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All Blacks vs Springboks, July 10th 2010
- Thread starter Dizzy
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Seaton
First XV
Well I dont think one can say his big mouth has cost a game yet, as they say, actions speak louder than words.
The way I see it, there is not a lot that other players could have done.
Obviously du Preez is missing, however in this game niether Pienaar, Hougaard or Duvenange could have changed the balance of play.
I personally would have played Rossouw ahead of Bakkies, but then again no-one (no-one important in rugby circles) complained about starting with Bakkies
Kirchner (it pains me to say this) is the best fullback playing in SA at the moment, whilst Olivier deserved a spot due to good form.
Solutions for next week?
no Bakkies= Rossouw start (However, I wouldn't be surprised to see Bekker come in, as that extra line-out option)
Louw will probably be dropped, in comes Potgeiter
Aplon in for Olivier, JdV to inside center.
However, if this isn't done I will have no qualms. All the players in the squad (bar Ralepelle) are of international standard, and all of the players should play at a higher standard than what they did. Fact is he is a better coach than anyone on this forum, unless there is another professional coach on here, and his selections are far more valid then ours.
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Duckdee
First XV
Rugby is getting really dirty. I think playing sport for a living should be viewed as a luxury, and if you do something that would get an ordinary person in trouble with the police, or commit an intentional act that could cause serious injury, they should get a life ban.
I'm a bit concerned about how draconian my views are getting. :/
I'm a bit concerned about how draconian my views are getting. :/
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That implies that the Boks would have won if Botha had not got a yellow card. Utter rubbish!
There was a LOT more going on their that just that. They they played badly because New Zealand didn't let them play well.
No, we played badly, because we didn't show up. Obviously NZ played very well, but that was not all that happened. Mentally, we were dumbfounded. I think that it has a lot to do with their preparations around this World Cup. I knew we would get hammered because of all of the issues surrounding our preparations. Playing a serioslu **** French team, and Italy in a Soccer mad country at the moment, to prepare for a test against a super hungry New Zealand team in Auckland? I thought we would lose 45-0 to be honest.
Also, we simply cannot function without Fourie du Preez. Regardless of him though, you would be blind not to see that every single Bok did not want to be on that field on Saturday. it was a pitiful display, and perhaps it will pick up once this world Cup blows over, and everyone starts concentrating on the rugby again. But for now, we are going to be punching bags unless the players get their heads into rugby again.
Also, we simply cannot function without Fourie du Preez. Regardless of him though, you would be blind not to see that every single Bok did not want to be on that field on Saturday. it was a pitiful display, and perhaps it will pick up once this world Cup blows over, and everyone starts concentrating on the rugby again. But for now, we are going to be punching bags unless the players get their heads into rugby again.
Botha to miss Tri-Nations
Bakkies Botha has been suspended for nine weeks for his petulant head-butt of Jimmy Cowan during South Africa's 32-12 defeat to New Zealand.
Botha has been suspended from all rugby up to and including September 4, the same date as the Springboks' final Tri-Nations Test, against Australia in Bloemfontein.
Botha was cited by SANZAR citing commissioner Scott Nowland for striking with the head, following a tackle on Cowan in the opening minute of the Test.
SANZAR judicial officer Dennis Wheelahan considered Botha's previous record before issuing the suspension, despite Botha's guilty plea and apparent contrition.
New Zealand coach Graham Henry claimed Botha was lucky not to get banned for longer.
"I'm not surprised," Henry said of the suspension.
"He's probably lucky he didn't get more than nine weeks. It's not part of the game and it has been dealt with correctly."
The incident happened after Cowan held Botha back while the pair were chasing a kick through in the first minute of opening Test.
Henry revealed three All Blacks players picked up injuries in the game.
Utility Richard Kahui sustained a shoulder injury, which Henry reported was "not good", and will have scans in Wellington tomorrow.
Wing Joe Rokocoko suffered a hamstring complaint and Cowan pulled up with an abdominal strain. No cover had been called in yet.
Henry was delighted with his side's clinical display against the world champions.
"We expected to play well, but 32-12 is a wow," Henry said.
"We're surprised by the magnitude of the result. The score-line was blown out of proportion. I'm sure things will be more realistic next week.
"We'll look at what the Springboks brought to the game that we didn't think they were going to bring. We'll get our feet back on the ground and see what alterations we need to make.
"They'll be a wounded animal next week, and they'll play accordingly. They're a quality side with bright players and they're well coached. They'll improve immensely, so it will be a more difficult game (in Wellington)."
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_6255687,00.html
Armbands at the ready...
Bakkies Botha has been suspended for nine weeks for his petulant head-butt of Jimmy Cowan during South Africa's 32-12 defeat to New Zealand.
Botha has been suspended from all rugby up to and including September 4, the same date as the Springboks' final Tri-Nations Test, against Australia in Bloemfontein.
Botha was cited by SANZAR citing commissioner Scott Nowland for striking with the head, following a tackle on Cowan in the opening minute of the Test.
SANZAR judicial officer Dennis Wheelahan considered Botha's previous record before issuing the suspension, despite Botha's guilty plea and apparent contrition.
New Zealand coach Graham Henry claimed Botha was lucky not to get banned for longer.
"I'm not surprised," Henry said of the suspension.
"He's probably lucky he didn't get more than nine weeks. It's not part of the game and it has been dealt with correctly."
The incident happened after Cowan held Botha back while the pair were chasing a kick through in the first minute of opening Test.
Henry revealed three All Blacks players picked up injuries in the game.
Utility Richard Kahui sustained a shoulder injury, which Henry reported was "not good", and will have scans in Wellington tomorrow.
Wing Joe Rokocoko suffered a hamstring complaint and Cowan pulled up with an abdominal strain. No cover had been called in yet.
Henry was delighted with his side's clinical display against the world champions.
"We expected to play well, but 32-12 is a wow," Henry said.
"We're surprised by the magnitude of the result. The score-line was blown out of proportion. I'm sure things will be more realistic next week.
"We'll look at what the Springboks brought to the game that we didn't think they were going to bring. We'll get our feet back on the ground and see what alterations we need to make.
"They'll be a wounded animal next week, and they'll play accordingly. They're a quality side with bright players and they're well coached. They'll improve immensely, so it will be a more difficult game (in Wellington)."
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_6255687,00.html
Armbands at the ready...
Read the BBC article earlier, didn't realise he's been cited as many times as he has!
They should just lifetime ban him, he's a ****ing thug.
They should just lifetime ban him, he's a ****ing thug.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/8808258.stm said:
9 weeks for a repeat offender, thats like giving a mass murderer Community Support.
A mass murderer and a Springbok rugby player - what's the difference? Ooooh, goodnight! :lol:
Just dug this up:
Bloody.LOVE IT! Can't stand Habana.
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Great game, really enjoyed it!
A number of standouts AB's for me. Up front Mealamu had a huge game - his work around the field was exceptional, and he has developed into a punishing defender in recent years. Most importantly his lineout throwing was accurate. Donnelly was also exceptional - I wasn't sure before the game who should be the second AB lock alongside Thorn, however Donnelly has certainly confirmed his spot now. Thorn, Kaino and Read also all stood out in both attack and defense - everyone in the forward pack seemed to do their jobs well.
Cowan had a poor game, though I'm sure being headbutted by a 120kg+ lock didn't help. I though Weepu added a lot when he came on which was a pleasant surprise, as I've not been impressed with him in the early tests. Nonu played well for a guy who hasn't played high level rugby for a while. Unlike a number of posters here I thought Rococoko had a very strong game - he was solid under the high ball, had a very high work rate, and though he didn't make any clean linebreaks he did look dangerous on a number of occasions. You get the feeleing it will only be a matter of time until he starts scoring tries on a regular basis for the AB's (assuming his injury is not too bad). Muliaina was exceptional at the back, especially considering he hasn't played much rugby this year.
There were few standouts for the Boks - though it is very difficult to standout when your team is on the back foot for the majority of the game. I thought Steenkamp played well - was solid enough in the scrums, and seemed to get around the field well. Matfield was solid, but I thought Louw and Spies were disappointing. I'm not surprised that Spies went missing in this game - I've often thought that he's the best number 8 in the world when his teams going forward, but struggles more than most when his team is going back. I'm expecting Louw to bounce back next week and have a good game (assuming he is selected) as he was very consistent in the Super 14. I was actually quite impressed by Burger - I've never been a big fan, but he was one of the few SA players that really stood up in this game.
It was hard to gauge the Boks backs in this game. Morne Steyn, Fourie and Habana were all solid, and I thought Olivier and de Villers were rather anonymous. I thought Kircher played quite well - he caught the high balls well, and was actually the Boks most dangerous runner when he actually ran. Unfortunately he predictably kicked it nearly every time he got the ball, with most of these kicks going slightly too far. He really needs to back himself and run it more, rather than giving the ball back to the AB's (though it really depends on whether his team-mates are getting back in support).
A number of standouts AB's for me. Up front Mealamu had a huge game - his work around the field was exceptional, and he has developed into a punishing defender in recent years. Most importantly his lineout throwing was accurate. Donnelly was also exceptional - I wasn't sure before the game who should be the second AB lock alongside Thorn, however Donnelly has certainly confirmed his spot now. Thorn, Kaino and Read also all stood out in both attack and defense - everyone in the forward pack seemed to do their jobs well.
Cowan had a poor game, though I'm sure being headbutted by a 120kg+ lock didn't help. I though Weepu added a lot when he came on which was a pleasant surprise, as I've not been impressed with him in the early tests. Nonu played well for a guy who hasn't played high level rugby for a while. Unlike a number of posters here I thought Rococoko had a very strong game - he was solid under the high ball, had a very high work rate, and though he didn't make any clean linebreaks he did look dangerous on a number of occasions. You get the feeleing it will only be a matter of time until he starts scoring tries on a regular basis for the AB's (assuming his injury is not too bad). Muliaina was exceptional at the back, especially considering he hasn't played much rugby this year.
There were few standouts for the Boks - though it is very difficult to standout when your team is on the back foot for the majority of the game. I thought Steenkamp played well - was solid enough in the scrums, and seemed to get around the field well. Matfield was solid, but I thought Louw and Spies were disappointing. I'm not surprised that Spies went missing in this game - I've often thought that he's the best number 8 in the world when his teams going forward, but struggles more than most when his team is going back. I'm expecting Louw to bounce back next week and have a good game (assuming he is selected) as he was very consistent in the Super 14. I was actually quite impressed by Burger - I've never been a big fan, but he was one of the few SA players that really stood up in this game.
It was hard to gauge the Boks backs in this game. Morne Steyn, Fourie and Habana were all solid, and I thought Olivier and de Villers were rather anonymous. I thought Kircher played quite well - he caught the high balls well, and was actually the Boks most dangerous runner when he actually ran. Unfortunately he predictably kicked it nearly every time he got the ball, with most of these kicks going slightly too far. He really needs to back himself and run it more, rather than giving the ball back to the AB's (though it really depends on whether his team-mates are getting back in support).
Dizzy
First XV
Boom!
Now that's a hit! Also, i thought i was the only one who didn't like Habana
man I can't stand him either... it's gone as far that I never say "Habana"... it's always "Banana".. Whenever I watch a game that he is involved in, I refer to him as Banana.
But on the game,
A beautiful game from the All Blacks, this is the kind of class that has disappeared from All Black rugby since my earlier years when becoming an All Black was every New Zealanders dream.
They brought back the worldwide dominance that the Men In Black have been known for and if they can keep this up or even excel, then our chances of capturing the World Cup are very probable.
With that said, South Africa contributed to our win as much as we did. I mean, watch the replay, South Africa never really seemed interested in winning as soon as the game began. The passion that is usually on their faces just wasn't there, the intensity wasn't there and without that mindstate, their hopes of even coming close to winning was never there.
The All Blacks played tremendous rugby and hushed many critics with a brilliant display of running rugby. Something that has been missing for years now. These days, most professional teams kick for touch whenever they are in their own 22, and in the last couple of seasons, the All Blacks have done so. But on Saturday, they brought back the confidence of running from the 22 and attempting to produce something magical. Even though nothing brilliant like a Christian Cullen 100m try happened, but their confidence was there and it proved to be enough.
Stand out players,
Man why are ya'll still hating on Kirchner, he seriously had one of, if not, the best game for any of the South Africans. He was the best runner the Springboks had on Saturday, the only one who bumped a few tackles and provided clean ball for his forwards. He never dropped the ball and fielded the AB's kicks with composure. And with everything that was said about him pre-game. I think he deserves a round of applause.
Burger, was consistent but we all know, one man can't do it all.
Am I the only one who thought JDV did well?.. I mean, he stopped alot of play, sure he attempted a couple intercepts but hey, if he had got those intercepts it would have been vital. His defence was good and I don't think he did particularly bad. Good game from JDV.
McCaw, what can I say, the worlds best No. 7. Enough said.
Muliaina, showed everyone why he is our top Fullback and sends a message to those who are contesting for the spot. You're going to have to be very outstanding to take his position. The man was involved in alot of play, coming in off his position to join the backs, make breaks and overall showed pure leadership with the ball. He is my MOTM.
Thorn, You all doubted him and he proved you all wrong. He is a dominant force in world rugby, is at nearly every single breakdown, blowing the opposition over the ball and providing good ball retention for the halfback. Showed massive strength in the tackle [see the hit he did on Banana] and he really did nothing wrong. Top game, Brad Thorn.
Smith, We all know he's underrated, we'll leave it at that.
Mealamu, one of the worlds greatest hookers, plays like a loose forward and shows great form every single game.
Read, well to be honest, I've never been a fan of Kieran Read and have always doubted him as a number 8. But he proved me wrong on Saturday. He played exeptionally well and after his performance I think he is the man at the moment for that number 8 position.
My prediction was 33-31 to the All Blacks. I was wrong, but I will keep this prediction for next week now that the Boks have been given a wake up call.
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Good analysis Dizzy. One point though, there was only one person who doubted Thorns ability (rugbywriter), and its been well established that his opinions have little credibility - I haven't seen any other posters even remotely doubting Thorns ability.
A question for anyone who knows the rules well (e.g. Smartcooky?): When NZ had a rolling maul in the second half the South African players were peeled away so it was just just the NZ players bound together walking forwards. When a South African player then touches this 'maul' surely this should be an obstruction penalty against NZ - indeed the South African players seemed to be appealing for this. Should there have been a penalty, or is there a different rule in play here considering that it started as a maul?
A question for anyone who knows the rules well (e.g. Smartcooky?): When NZ had a rolling maul in the second half the South African players were peeled away so it was just just the NZ players bound together walking forwards. When a South African player then touches this 'maul' surely this should be an obstruction penalty against NZ - indeed the South African players seemed to be appealing for this. Should there have been a penalty, or is there a different rule in play here considering that it started as a maul?
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Dizzy
First XV
Sorry, you may be right about rugbywriter... i've read numerous bad posts about Thorn on different days and don't really pay attention to who said what lol...
As for the maul, it started off as a maul and then broke off, even though the south africans pulled out, the All Blacks continued the maul which made it legal.
Iron Mike
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The only thing I didn't like about Thorn this game was handling, I think he dropped the ball three times? They aren't even really bad passes. But Thorn is solid, and whoever says Botha is better needs their bloody head checked. On a good day Botha is about on par with Thorn, but what seperates them is Botha rarely has a good day, if he has a day at all with all the suspensions he gets. Even if he was clearly better than Thorn, he still would be worse because you can't do much sitting in the sin bin or off in the stands because of a 9 week suspension. Botha is a thug, plain and simple, an overrated thug. Thorn is very solid, never gets into trouble, apart from the provoked dump tackle on John Smit and can play 80 minutes of rugby, with or without the refs help. He is the best number 4 lock in the world, Matfield being the best number 5 lock, although after that game he has to rethink his gameplan a bit. You can't compare Thorn and Matfield because they are two very different players.
All I know is I'd love to have both of them in my team.
The thing about Kirchner is, which I don't understand, is he does exactly what Morne Steyn or Fourie Du Preez or Francois Steyn do, which seem to be the three most talked about Springbok players, which is kick the ball away, yet Kirchner gets the **** for it, why? Kirchner sent a few up and unders the All Blacks way and it didn't really work because Jean De Villiers is a useless wing, stick a fast guy like Pieterson (is he injured?) or Gerhard van de Heever and you have yourself something to work with. He is a good defensive player and everyone hates him because he dropped a ball against Wales which led to a Welsh try and for some other reason? All I know is that whenever I see him play, I know he is dangerous and in that All Blacks game he was the only Springbok who looked like he knew what he was doing and actually looked threatening.
All I know is I'd love to have both of them in my team.
The thing about Kirchner is, which I don't understand, is he does exactly what Morne Steyn or Fourie Du Preez or Francois Steyn do, which seem to be the three most talked about Springbok players, which is kick the ball away, yet Kirchner gets the **** for it, why? Kirchner sent a few up and unders the All Blacks way and it didn't really work because Jean De Villiers is a useless wing, stick a fast guy like Pieterson (is he injured?) or Gerhard van de Heever and you have yourself something to work with. He is a good defensive player and everyone hates him because he dropped a ball against Wales which led to a Welsh try and for some other reason? All I know is that whenever I see him play, I know he is dangerous and in that All Blacks game he was the only Springbok who looked like he knew what he was doing and actually looked threatening.
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http://nz.sports.yahoo.com/rugby/news/article/-/7568408/guildford-mathewson-join-blacks
FFS, WHEN WILL HENRY PUT HOSEA GEAR IN, COME ON!
This is what i was getting at. We lost the game before we even ran onto that field. The All Blacks had the right mind-set, and were ready to play. We were nowhere. Unmotivated, and preoccupied.
