I get what u mean, but I'd say Umaga's handleing was fine, and his passing brilliant. He is more suited at centre and Horan at 12, which is why people would prefer Horan at 12, however I can't put Umaga at centre because I think the minimum penalty for leaving out O'Driscoll is a 2 week ban on the forum, so I put Umaga at 12 out of fear :unsure:Im of the same believe that Tana wasnt that gifted with his hands.. great runner with ball in hand but so was tim horan and little tim could handle the shite out of it the basa!!!!!!!!!
must say Cyrill that i have heard barry john named as one of the greatest OH's the game has seen but Carter for me is untouchable at the moment![/b]
I get what u mean, but I'd say Umaga's handleing was fine, and his passing brilliant. He is more suited at centre and Horan at 12, which is why people would prefer Horan at 12, however I can't put Umaga at centre because I think the minimum penalty for leaving out O'Driscoll is a 2 week ban on the forum, so I put Umaga at 12 out of fear :unsure:[/b]
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Dec 16 2009, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I get what u mean, but I'd say Umaga's handleing was fine, and his passing brilliant. He is more suited at centre and Horan at 12, which is why people would prefer Horan at 12, however I can't put Umaga at centre because I think the minimum penalty for leaving out O'Driscoll is a 2 week ban on the forum, so I put Umaga at 12 out of fear :unsure:[/b]
I've had a rethink and came up with the conclusion that my previous post was biased by leaving out some great SA player being scared of coming across biased and not wanting to tackle players of olden days. So to remedy.:
15 Christian Cullen
14 David Campese
13 Danie Gerber
12 Philipe Sella
11 Joe Roff
10 Daniel Carter
9 Joost van der Westhuizen
8 Hennie Muller
7 Francois Pienaar
6 Richie McCaw
5 Colin Meads
4 Frik du Preez
3 Jason Leonard
2 Keith Wood
1 Os du Randt
Seriously and unbiased.[/b]
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (stormer2010 @ Dec 17 2009, 09:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've had a rethink and came up with the conclusion that my previous post was biased by leaving out some great SA player being scared of coming across biased and not wanting to tackle players of olden days. So to remedy.:
15 Christian Cullen
14 David Campese
13 Danie Gerber
12 Philipe Sella
11 Joe Roff
10 Daniel Carter
9 Joost van der Westhuizen
8 Hennie Muller
7 Francois Pienaar
6 Richie McCaw
5 Colin Meads
4 Frik du Preez
3 Jason Leonard
2 Keith Wood
1 Os du Randt
Seriously and unbiased.[/b]
So you didn't put Lomu in there, because you don't know how good he would do in the modern game, but you put a 6'2'' Colin Meads in lock? And Tana Umaga is like Gerber, but with talent (NickDNZ said unbiasedly).Personally don't rate Lomu (maybe because I wasn't concerned about him against the Boks and he never did score against us) and I think he would look ordinary in the modern game. With Caucau it might be a bit unfair against other great wings as he only played 11 tests and not all against decent opposition. That said both are icons in rugby. One has to mention John Kirwan as well, I guess. But with these all-time XV's one cannot mention everyone and the differences are so slight you cannot really argue one way or the other really especially considering how the game has changed. Pointless exercise really. My bench BTW (with honorable mention):
16 Wilson Whineray (Sole)
17 John Smit (Fitzpatrick)
18 John Eales (McBride, Matfield, Johnson)
19 Michael Jones (Davies, Hill, Brooke, Mourie, Kronfeld)
20 Gareth Edwards (Gregan)
21 Hugo Porta (Ella, Wilkinson, John)
22 Serge Blanco (between centers, wingers & fullbacks.. not going to bother)
On, Pienaar; because I just watched Invictus and just wanted to. Best SA rugby player ever has to be Frik du Preez. On Gerber vs O'Driscoll I'd say BOD might have better hands but Gerber doesn't , oh, look , he allready scored. Like Umaga but a step up.[/b]
BIAS ALERT! BIAS ALERT! BIAS ALERT! BIAS ALERT! BIAS ALERT! BIAS ALERT! BIAS ALERT!On, Pienaar; because I just watched Invictus and just wanted to.[/b]
Still miles behind BOD.On Gerber vs O'Driscoll I'd say BOD might have better hands but Gerber doesn't , oh, look , he allready scored. Like Umaga but a step up.[/b]
So you didn't put Lomu in there, because you don't know how good he would do in the modern game, but you put a 6'2'' Colin Meads in lock? And Tana Umaga is like Gerber, but with talent (NickDNZ said unbiasedly).[/b]
I think Umaga is one of the most overrated players in history. Along with Francois Pienaar, and more recently, Ryan Cross.[/b]
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Dec 17 2009, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So you didn't put Lomu in there, because you don't know how good he would do in the modern game, but you put a 6'2'' Colin Meads in lock? And Tana Umaga is like Gerber, but with talent (NickDNZ said unbiasedly).[/b]
Personally don't rate Lomu (maybe because I wasn't concerned about him against the Boks and he never did score against us) and I think he would look ordinary in the modern game[/quote You just said you didn't pick Lomu because he would look ordinary in a modern game, but you picked players like Collin Meads, who was 6'2'', so of course he is going to look ordinary in a modern game as well, but the criteria dosn't apply to him?
I don't get what people have against Tana Umaga. In my OPINION he was one of the greatest All Blacks in history, both as a player and as a captain.
As for Lomu never scored against South Africa, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48U-CRgeUUk . It mentions how SA would change their game plans to combat Lomu. And people get hard over Spies and yet Lomu was bigger, heavier, faster and stronger, so it seems like double standards again. If you don't pick Lomu, I don't really care, or if people don't pick Umaga, it's up to them, but it seems a shame people rubbish great players, (not what you did) because they don't rate them. Lomu was a big guy who played a career sick, and he did extremley well, as he became the sports first Superstar, and there has been noone of the same status since (i'd say the closest was Wilkinson in 2003).
1. Sure, but I do rate Umaga that highly. Call it bias, but he was extremley good in my opinion. I would rate Jeff Wilson as one of New Zealand's best wingers, however I chose Caucaunibuca (though on reflection I may choose Habana), because I think that despite how good Wilson was (and he was very good), there may have been better wingers in Habana or Caucau or Williams or w/e. Umaga I just think seems to be under rated in this forum, and claims he dosn't have handling skills, seem to be unfounded.I get your point and agree and will strike Meads from my list. Thanks.
"In my OPINION he was one of the greatest All Blacks in history, both as a player and as a captain.": Umaga. Which makes him an automatic selection at center? Andre Joubert was the greatest Springbok fullback ever IMO but I won't even consider him because there were better internationally.
As for Lomu, I'm not trying to say he was anything other than great and to be fair, I've never got aroused by Spies in any way, shape or form. As for SA changing their gameplan to contain Lomu, pfaf, it went as far as having the scrumhalf (JvdW) mark the winger.[/b]
