Boxing Thread

Discussion in 'All Other Sports' started by TRF_Cymro, Apr 16, 2010.

  1. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Hall of Fame

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    Don't get me wrong I am not saying they are shying away. More actively go looking. And I understand that isn't just down to them and promoters are a lot of the issues.
    I don't deny Froch or any of the others were not tough just I suppose how I'd see it.
     
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  3. The Oggmonster

    The Oggmonster Bench Player

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    The set up of boxing is fundamentally flawed and obsolete now. There are too many bodies (IBF, WBA, WBA, WBO...) and boxers have to do their own promotion and negotiation via promoters which means the top ranked boxers don't always face each other due to dodging, greed, disputes over money amongst other things.

    UFC has it nailed - one body, one ranking system and they control all promo and TV rights. This pretty much ensures that the top ranked fighters can't dodge each other. I can't recall hearing UFC fighters arguing in the media over money. The system ensures that the cream rises to the top and contracts are set up to ensure money is fairly distributed. Yes Dana White gets rich but the fighters are still paid mega bucks.
     
  4. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Pay in the UFC is pretty shocking, tbf.
    The top top guys make mega bucks but you can count the amount of fighters who made 7 figures for a fight on your hands. It's getting better but the revenue share is still miniscule compared to other sports (I'm pretty sure it's 10%ish goes to fighters, whereas as nba/nfl have 50% going to salaries)

    That said its an infinitely better setup than boxing is, which is an utter shambles.
     
  5. The Oggmonster

    The Oggmonster Bench Player

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    Fair points. The gulf in pay between the top top guys and the rest is there in most sports tbh. Alexis Sanchez is on £400k per week whereas only last year Marcus Rashford was on £20k per week. I know who'd I rather have in my team. Same in tennis - the likes of Djok & Fed earn way more for winning GS events compared with the guys like Kyle Edmund.

    The boxing bodies need to get together and overhaul the set up. Until that happens the status quo will continue.
     
  6. Tallshort

    Tallshort International

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    How's boxing an utter shambles?
     
  7. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    True but in the ufc unless you're a title contender you're working a second job

    Like Rachael Ostovich was on the main card of a stacked event and made $12k, take out taxes and gym and agent fees she's got 8k tops
     
  8. Rich Taff

    Rich Taff First XV

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    UFC isn't a sport though. It's (in my opinion) a place to go if you're too violent to take a normal job, and too bad to actually fight someone who knows what they're doing. (also known as Connor McGregor syndrome)
     
  9. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Correct, it's a promotion in the sport of Mixed Martial Arts.
    The rest of your post is too ignorant to dignify with a response.
     
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  10. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Hall of Fame

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    To be fair the training and discipline of most is phenomenal. Wouldn't say their bums. Even McGregor like for all the media painting he is a seriously tuned in trainer and athlete.
    And guys like Nate Diaz can do triathlons up to serious standard.
     
  11. The Oggmonster

    The Oggmonster Bench Player

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    Two of my friends, one a lawyer and one a CFO are black belts in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.
     
  12. Cruz_del_Sur

    Cruz_del_Sur First XV

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    That's gotta be one of the most uninformed opinions ever posted on this forum. Everything you've stated is false. Every single thing.

    I've done box, judo and bjj at gyms for some time, in different gyms, cities and countries.
    I've hanged out on bars a countles times with all of the groups. I've never, not once, seen judo/bjjs provoke or look for a fight outside the gym. With boxers it was pretty much the norm.

    When a boxer came bruised or with a black eye he was generally teased for it. It was seen as if he had lost a fight against a "civilian". In bjj/judo it was frowned upon and he was asked to explain himself.
    The bjj crowd is very intolerant towards violence being used when not attacked. Incredibly intolerant.

    A bjj practitioner is trained to immobilize a guy without (seriously) hurting him if he chooses to do so. That's what taps are for. A boxer's only way to stop a fight is through a ko or through intimidation. Both tend to act accordingly, which regardless of right/wrong, makes sense.

    And, just to be absolutely clear, you take a random guy with 2 years training in boxing vs the same guy with 2 years training in bjj and the latter would kill him 99 out of 100 times. I dont mean figuratively, i mean literally.
    Someone like you would probably look at it and think, "ohh, he landed on top and the boxer twisted his ankle/knee/elbow" and attribute it to luck because, well, you dont "know what they are doing".
    Bjj is not about aesthetics, it is 100% about effectiveness. To the untrained eye it will look unappealing, boring, even nonsense. Thing is, it's the closest thing you can get to a superpower (fighting wise).

    The difference between two people roughly the same size if one is trained in bjj and the other isn't is nothing short of abysmal.

    You have a better shot of tackling Lomu at his peak than beating a version of yourself with a year of bjj training.
     
  13. Woldog

    Woldog First XV

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    To be honest my boxing gym, currently has 3 national title holders in boxing who have also held titles in national MMA, we currently teach Thai, Boxing, BJJ and Judo, and I've done sparring with the MMA guys when they've had fights coming up if I'm of similar build for their opponents, I've boxed since I was 12 (28 now) and a bit of Muay Thai (Plus 22 years of rugby) and honestly the ground game stuff never really bothered me, I just avoided the takedown and I was golden. I think BJJ is a great for self defense because it's much more geared to your opponent going forwards towards you, but I don't think it's really that intimidating, I've only ever been tapped once (by a guy who has won all his fights with submissions) and it took him 2 rounds to get me on the ground while I peppered his face with shots, but once I was on the ground I'd say it took him about 15 seconds to get me in a monster of an arm bar.
    I'd much rather know how to box in a street fight than how to do BJJ, because street fights are rarely 1v1 and the last thing I want to be doing is rolling around on the ground while my opponents homies come up and start kicking me in the head.
     
  14. Cruz_del_Sur

    Cruz_del_Sur First XV

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    I understand where you are coming from but you are an anomaly. I will try to avoid "your, my, my friends" examples to eliminate bias. Fortunately, mma is old enough to observe some trends.
    Look at the first 3 seasons of UFC. Back then fighters were unidimensional: they were experts at one style and one style only.
    The brazilians sent Renzo Gracie not because he was the best, nor because he was the strongest nor biggest nor fastest. They sent Renzo because he looked skinny and weak (for an open category) and they wanted to prove a point. His striking was "meh" at best and given his training (bjj) it wasn't as if he was a takedown expert as a wrestler or a judo guy would be. He dismantled almost everyone they put in front of him in 2 minutes or less. His opponents' comments after the fights were all pretty much the same: i dont know what just happened, need to watch the replay.

    And if you watch the first 10, 20, 30, 40 or 50 seasons of UFC there is a very, very specific trend that you will notice. On average (there are a few exceptions), it was considerably easier for for a grappler to take down a striker than for a striker to prevent being taken down.

    Strikers with no ground game had 3 very big disadvantages:
    - they were constantly worried about being taken down, so it's not as if they could fight freely
    - The grappler could miss 20 attempts but if he landed his 21st takedown, it was pretty much game over. If the striker went all in and missed just once odds were he would be taken off balance and brought down. The striker's margin of error was very small. The grappler's one was pretty big.
    - The difference once the fight was on the ground was generally so big that even if the striker landed on top that mattered very little. He didnt know what to do.

    Even in pride, new fighters from striking background had special rules in their first fights (they could be taken down but if they werent submitted in the first 20-30 sec they were stood up). Bjj, sambo, wrestlers never had any special rule. They still dominated.

    What does street fighting have to do with anything? He said " too bad to actually fight someone who knows what they're doing".
     
  15. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Couture vs Toney
    Nuff said
     
  16. Woldog

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    I mentioned street fighting to simply say I’d much prefer being proficient in boxing over bjj in that instance.

    I can’t say I watch any MMA at all, I never got into watching the UFC, I will occasionally watch a fight i.e when my friend fights (she’s in the UFC) or when I’m flicking through channels and Bellator is on. Personally the only UFC fighter I’ve seen a lot of is Mark Hunt and his ground game is horrific. For me I find the ground game in MMA dreadfully boring, not to say I don’t understand the skill it takes but personally I can’t stand it.

    I did watch a bit of Pride back in the day and found it a more enjoyable format when compared to the UFC.

    I’ve sparred and been taken down by purple belts in BJJ and honestly not found it that hard to escape and get back to stand up, the guy who made me tap was a brown belt and he had my arm locked down so fast that I didn’t even know what had happened, so you’re certainly right in that with certain people a BJJ fighter can end it in an instant.
     
  17. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    If you got taken down and not tapped by purple belts then they weren't purple belts and got their ranks from a mcdojo somewhere. Any legit blue belt or above will tap any untrained person. Hell I'd say a 2/3 stripe white belt will tap anyone with no ground training.

    Hunto is/was a kickboxer who went to MMA for the money, hes not indicative of modern MMA at all.
     
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  18. ThebigARena

    ThebigARena Academy Player

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    I echo what others have mentioned on here there are far to many belts in boxing WBC, who, ibf, wba ,ibo and in some you have regular and super champions just to confuse matters, absolutely ridiculous. But the thing that I really detest about boxing is the politics very rarely do the best face the best in each weight division due to television deals and promoters pricing their fighters out . What one boxer think he's worth is different from another, too many politics and corrupt judging , there's is too much corruption in boxing and that's all played into UFC hands and the rise of MMA.
     
  19. Woldog

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    I wouldn't say I'm completely untrained, I have done combat sports for most of my life and I did wrestling at school for 5 years. As long as you don't panic and flail around you can survive.
    Considering my gym is one of the most successful professional fight gyms in the country I'd say we're not exactly a McDojo, the other thing is the purple belts may not have been actively trying that hard to submit me knowing I'm not an MMA fighter and was simply sparring with them because I was the same height and weight as their opponent. I'm not saying I'm about to run into Gracies and start challenging purple belts.
     
  20. Rich Taff

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    Horrible feeling Eubank is going to have to knock deGale out to get a draw here.
     
  21. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Get Eubank in a rugby shirt, that was a hell of a tackle
     
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