Champions Cup Quarter-Final: Munster v Toulon

[munstermuffin]

Law 11.5

1. The ball is not knocked-on, and play continues, if:
   1. 
      
      
   2. A player knocks the ball forward immediately after an opponent has kicked it (charge down).
      
      
   3. A player rips or knocks the ball from an opponent and the ball goes forward from the opponent's hand or arm.

Yes but it not a slap away preventing a try. It's legal

 

[die_mole]

Yes but it not a slap away preventing a try. It's legal

So how is the 5m scrum the right outcome for what happened?

And Again, where is there precedent or law that shows slapping a ball out of a players hand into touch can't be considered intentional batting ball into touch.

 

[Amiga500]

And Again, where is there precedent or law that shows slapping a ball out of a players hand into touch can't be considered intentional batting ball into touch.

?!?!

That is like asking for a rip forward to be given as a deliberate knock on.

 

[die_mole]

?!?!

That is like asking for a rip forward to be given as a deliberate knock on.

A rip forward would be a knock on.

If you slap at the ball and it goes forward is an intentional knock on.

 

[Amiga500]

If you slap at the ball and it goes forward is an intentional knock on.

If it is in another players hands?

 

[die_mole]

If it is in another players hands?

Yes... if your intention is to tackle it will be knock on only, but if the intention is just to swat at the ball it's a penalty.

It probably happens a lot more in the United States because of the gridiron move of punching at the ball instead of tackling.

 

[munstermuffin]

@themole25 we will just agree to disagree but well my view of law is it was a knock on due to it being in Ashton's hands and Zebo hitting it upward out of his hands. And the ball went over dead ball line. The 5m scrum to Munster was for that said knock on. Thankfully it seems Owens on the day, the TMO on the day, via well respected ex French ref and few others agree. I respect that you don't agree and fair enough.
On the intention to tackle bit. They were going at such a speed I think there was no way to say his intention was anything just survive the scenario.
Guess it a case of how you interpret the rules and we do it differently.

 

[Amiga500]

Yes... if your intention is to tackle it will be knock on only, but if the intention is just to swat at the ball it's a penalty.

So any time a player attempts to rip or disposes they run the risk of a penalty?

Can you quote the appropriate law please?

 

[die_mole]

So any time a player attempts to rip or disposes they run the risk of a penalty?

Can you quote the appropriate law please?

11.3

1. A player must not intentionally knock the ball forward with hand or arm. Sanction: Penalty.

Nowhere does it say: unless it's in the hands of an opponent.

I really don't get where you are getting this idea of if an opener is carrying the ball you can do what ever. It's all about your action on the ball.

Also definition of a knock-on:
Knock-on: When a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.

 

[Alcyon]

11.3

1. A player must not intentionally knock the ball forward with hand or arm. Sanction: Penalty.

Nowhere does it say: unless it's in the hands of an opponent.

I really don't get where you are getting this idea of if an opener is carrying the ball you can do what ever. It's all about your action on the ball.

Also definition of a knock-on:
Knock-on: When a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.

I was just reading the topic, but you are displaying a wonderful bad faith.

Law 11 : knock-on

1. 
   KNOCK-ON
   
2. A knock-on may occur anywhere in the playing area.
3. It is a knock-on when a player, in tackling or attempting to tackle an opponent, makes contact with the ball and the ball goes forward. Sanction: Scrum.
4. A player must not intentionally knock the ball forward with hand or arm. Sanction: Penalty.
5. It is not an intentional knock-on if, in the act of trying to catch the ball, the player knocks on provided that there was a reasonable expectation that the player could gain possession.
6. The ball is not knocked-on, and play continues, if:
   1. A player knocks the ball forward immediately after an opponent has kicked it (charge down).
   2. A player rips or knocks the ball from an opponent and the ball goes forward from the opponent's hand or arm.

See the last sentence.