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[COVID-19] General Discussion

Tallshort said:
Look I get it. We have to live with this and face masks and 2 metres etc is going to be the norm that doesn't bother me but there is risk in life and at some point covid has to become part of that risk. Growing up I had measles and mumps, most of the kids in my school did. If I remember rightly one kids ended up disabled from measles. The last 30 years we in Western societies have had the privilege of not worrying about virus/diseases etc apart from HIV. The rest of the world on the other hand has had to deal with them and they tend to be doing a lot better during this pandemic. A pandemic which had effectively crashed the economies of most of Europe and North America. I just don't think we can avoid this virus taking its eventual toll. I was talking to my ex the other day who's Polish and during the first out break Poland coped very well, no panic buying, social distancing etc but this time it's a lot worse even though the same control measures are in place. New Zealand is being given of an example of great virus control when it's really geography that's spared it the worst so far, eventually it will have to deal with it.
It's a **** situation but pretending we can stop this virus by locking down and knackering up the economy isn't going to work. The more people out of work the less tax revenue to fund the NHS, the more unemployment the bigger equality will become and more health problems associated with poverty will have to be dealt. If people are vulnerable then they need to take steps to protect themselves but the rest of the population needs to carry on as best it can.
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But it's already become part of the normal and lockdown is the last measure available.

unfortunately tax revenues will have to suffer until you get a hold of the Pandemic. Until we do then the economy is going to suffer regardless
Government borrowing is already horrendous but currently interest rates are historically low. And if extra borrowing is needed for NHS then Govt will have to borrow until this pandemic is back under control then this is the time to do it. Yes, we will have to pay it and the interest someday and likely passed on to your kids etc.

You talk about NZ, but don't mention HK, Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, China, the South East Asian economies who have gotten hold of their Pandemic and lived and learnt from SARS and MERs. It can be controlled but it needs a comprehensive Government policy, testing/tracing system and all of the population to buy into it to limit the spread. For me it says a lot of our society how we look after our Vulnerable.

Western societies seem to think to hell with them as long as I am ok mentality. And No Government wants to lock down the country it ducks up the economy and they will get the blame. It is a last resort and shows how much our one has royally fcked up yet again.
 
If we wanted to help out the economy whilst funding things we could raise taxes on corporate profits...and actually tighten the rules on the dodgers.

The economies ****** because of Brexit but amazing how people were willing to take to hit for that but somehow protecting the vulnerable and reducing deaths not so much. I wonder if they were genuinely willing to take the hit of Brexit when it actually happened. They'll blame COVID on it now you can already see businesses doing it as it make for better news stories than not beliving in Britain or some other nonsence.

Lockdowns are part of living with the virus and if you plan them and keep them short the impact to economy will be far less. The issue comes when they are lengthy and you can't get ready for it to happen.
 
ncurd said:
If we wanted to help out the economy whilst funding things we could raise taxes on corporate profits...and actually tighten the rules on the dodgers.

The economies ****** because of Brexit but amazing how people were willing to take to hit for that but somehow protecting the vulnerable and reducing deaths not so much. I wonder if they were genuinely willing to take the hit of Brexit when it actually happened. They'll blame COVID on it now you can already see businesses doing it as it make for better news stories than not beliving in Britain or some other nonsence.

Lockdowns are part of living with the virus and if you plan them and keep them short the impact to economy will be far less. The issue comes when they are lengthy and you can't get ready for it to happen.
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Corporation tax will inevitably go up from 19%. They put it down to that level to be competive internationally and also they're scared a lot of big companies will just leave and sack loads of people. Big companies also pay other taxes like Employers' NIC at 13.8% on people's salaries.

There's also a lot of anti avoidance legislation already in place which I am learning about like Transfer of assets abroad -basically people transferring sums to overseas trusts or companies and they and their spouses still benefitting from it. And people trading in /developing land and trying pay capital gains tax rates in profits rather than income tax rates. It's catching those that is the problem and needs a lot of resources from HMRC.

But a big one they are talking about is equalizing income tax rates and capital gains tax rates. So much of tax turns on this because income tax rates are broadly 20%/40%/45% compared to capital gains tax rates of 10%/20% and 18%/28% on residential property.

Pensions is also ripe for reform. Tax reliefs are far too generous for higher rate and additional rate tax payers, when it's the lower income workers who need help saving.

Also the triple lock on Pension income has to be removed. But Bojo is reluctant to **** off the pensioners because it's in the Tory Manifesto and this is the age group who turn out the vote. Especially as the young are the ones who are going to pay for this Covid crisis and the consequences of Brexit.
 
Cheers knew you'd understand it all better TBH the tax brackets need sorting out to on normal income tax more relief for those paying nothing and the 20%/40% need adjusting not just on thresholds but actual precentage points.

Oh yeah and remove the limit to the amount of NI you pay that a real ******* joke.
 
ncurd said:
Cheers knew you'd understand it all better TBH the tax brackets need sorting out to on normal income tax more relief for those paying nothing and the 20%/40% need adjusting not just on thresholds but actual precentage points.

Oh yeah and remove the limit to the amount of NI you pay that a real ******* joke.
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Yeh good one on the NIC limit. Currently 2% above earnings of £50k. Although if they do increase that and peep's pay packets who earn that much start getting less then there will be a lot of discontent. Paying 12% over circa £9,500 and no cap maybe a bit much.

Self employed currently only pay class 4 NIC of 9% on their profits between £9,500 and £50k and 2% above. Hammond tried to change that a few years ago. But may not be politically popular for self employed peeps, who have suffered big time this year.

Dividends is also a way for owner managed businesses to extract profits from their companies without paying NIC. It would be interesting to see if the Government would touch those rates. Currently IT rates on those are lower than income tax rates on earned income and savings (7.5%, 32.5% and 38.1%).
 
Only took 5 seconds of Boris speaking swear a lot. He still thinks regional approach was correct 2 weeks ago.
 
Which Tyler said:
Apologies if this has already been posted, but it's a must-read article on transmission mechanisms.

english.elpais.com

A room, a bar and a classroom: how the coronavirus is spread through the air

The risk of contagion is highest in indoor spaces but can be reduced by applying all available measures to combat infection via aerosols. Here is an overview of the likelihood of infection in three everyday scenarios, based on the safety measures used and the length of exposure
english.elpais.com english.elpais.com
Click to expand...

www.google.com

Understanding 'aerosol transmission' could be key to controlling coronavirus | Julian Tang

We should still wash our hands, but growing evidence suggests one of the main ways Covid-19 spreads is through the air, says clinical virologist Julian Tang
www.google.com www.google.com

Pretty much backs up the article posted by WT.
 
Have faith, we in Aus have managed to get our second wave under control, It is possible
 
Jabby said:
Have faith, we in Aus have managed to get our second wave under control, It is possible
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The problem is we have government who is unwilling a section of the general populace who don't believe it's neccesary and/or possible.
 
ncurd said:
The problem is we have government who is unwilling a section of the general populace who don't believe it's neccesary and/or possible.
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sorry, dont follow, might need another coffee
 
Fundamentally, the UK Government still hasn't got a comprehensive and effective testing and contact tracing system in place to isolate those infected and trace those affected and isolate them. It's had 8 months to put one in place whether it's via local authorities and nationally.
 
The_Blindside said:
Fundamentally, the UK Government still hasn't got a comprehensive and effective testing and contact tracing system in place to isolate those infected and trace those affected and isolate them. It's had 8 months to put one in place whether it's via local authorities and nationally.
Click to expand...
No effective testing?...ok, that will be tough
 

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