Dylan Hartley to become England captain

[Tony Manx]

Oh really, so how is it Burgess was taken from the field when England were winning, BEFORE Wales kicked your sorry arse out of the World Cup, hmmmm?

Oh you're so quick to forget that key element.

It's not my fault you can't see talent when it's right in front of you.

To be fair England didn't have any world class players under Lancaster and Farrell.
But under Jones and Borthwick many of those same players will be world class.

That is one point of view I suppose......

 

[ncurd]

Oh really, so how is it Burgess was taken from the field when England were winning, BEFORE Wales kicked your sorry arse out of the World Cup, hmmmm?

No I haven't but not being the reason you lost a match and being world class are separate things are they not?

 

[The Jones Boy]

It's not like you brought on anyone better than him, so play the better player and take off Barritt who led a crazy defensive charge into the Welsh half that opened Englands defensive line and gave Wales an opportunity they didn't need to be gifted.
It's done and dusted now but had he been mentored he could have been awesome, instead he was scapegoated and opted to bail out of a toxic environment that unfairly tarred him for future opportunities. A situation that was not of his making.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Except Burgess wasn't scapegoated whatsoever, in any way shape or form, in the slightest.

 

[The Jones Boy]

The English media presented him as a problem and nobody in English rugby offered him any support.
His reputation was tainted in the process and he took the only course of action to earn the top money in the short time frame he has in a collision oriented career.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

No they didn't.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

No they didn't.

Why do you entertain him?

 

[McTallshort]

It's not like you brought on anyone better than him, so play the better player and take off Barritt who led a crazy defensive charge into the Welsh half that opened Englands defensive line and gave Wales an opportunity they didn't need to be gifted.
It's done and dusted now but had he been mentored he could have been awesome, instead he was scapegoated and opted to bail out of a toxic environment that unfairly tarred him for future opportunities. A situation that was not of his making.

What happened to you? You used to talk sense now your just an anti English troll like kiwi. Grow up for ****s sake

 

[The Jones Boy]

There's nothing anti English in my discussion.
You're struggling with your own language.
Just because another member has a differing opinion that you can't agree with, or comprehend, does'nt mean they are a troll.
This English 'banding together to rail at me, with no coherent argument and importantly no answers to my questions, just moronic plodding contradiction, (This is you sadly Oly, whats happened to you?) that is a schoolboy effort at baiting and well beneath me.

Look here you over sensitive Gerties...

Its a shame for England that they can't find an English manager as good as Sir Clive Woodward.
Maybe in time that could be Borthwick...
However, needs must and the Aussie boy Jones is a skilled coach and a canny bugger. His winning pedigree around the world means he is a thinker and he has a bag of tricks.
He does have some excellent world class players to choose from, a few of whom were not in the RWC squad because Lancaster and Andy Farrell had their own shortcomings and agendas in equal measure.
He will make some serious changes.
Bringing Cipriani back is a Monty. The kid was on fire before the RWC.
Bringing Hartley back is a Monty.
I haven't seen an English hooker as imposing as him on the field, ever, bar none.
None of you can offer any other options, certainly not Oly, so far...
Hartley is not afraid of the All Blacks, or the Wallabies and it shows. He is a real fighter and aggressive and you 'need' that, he's a good ball carrier and hits his targets in the line out. But why wouldn't he, the English locks are perennially massive and generally world class. It begs the question about other hookers, and perhaps George will be in the mix but he's as green as a granny smith apple on the International circuit and Jones is aware, as you all should be that England are desperately lacking in players with long standing experience.
It was spotlighted in the RWC where important decisions in the backline and at captaincy were found wanting in the pressure cooker.
Heavens above don't bring back average quality, aged players like Easter, use someone who still has impact, like Hartley. He will be a great stepping stone for another younger hooker to overtake in a couple of years.
Instead of falling back on old defensive lines about the clubs, look at the improvement in results made at other countries who have embraced a regional development.
I have no doubt whatsoever that when the club issue is finally put to bed and the regional conveyer belt is eventually installed, England will be the benchmark team in world rugby, they will be the regular no.1 and Twickenham will be a fortress.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Lol at Hartley imposing.

 

[McTallshort]

There's nothing anti English in my discussion.
You're struggling with your own language.
Just because another member has a differing opinion that you can't agree with, or comprehend, does'nt mean they are a troll.
This English 'banding together to rail at me, with no coherent argument and importantly no answers to my questions, just moronic plodding contradiction, (This is you sadly Oly, whats happened to you?) that is a schoolboy effort at baiting and well beneath me.

Look here you over sensitive Gerties...

Its a shame for England that they can't find an English manager as good as Sir Clive Woodward.
Maybe in time that could be Borthwick...
However, needs must and the Aussie boy Jones is a skilled coach and a canny bugger. His winning pedigree around the world means he is a thinker and he has a bag of tricks.
He does have some excellent world class players to choose from, a few of whom were not in the RWC squad because Lancaster and Andy Farrell had their own shortcomings and agendas in equal measure.
He will make some serious changes.
Bringing Cipriani back is a Monty. The kid was on fire before the RWC.
Bringing Hartley back is a Monty.
I haven't seen an English hooker as imposing as him on the field, ever, bar none.
None of you can offer any other options, certainly not Oly, so far...
Hartley is not afraid of the All Blacks, or the Wallabies and it shows. He is a real fighter and aggressive and you 'need' that, he's a good ball carrier and hits his targets in the line out. But why wouldn't he, the English locks are perennially massive and generally world class. It begs the question about other hookers, and perhaps George will be in the mix but he's as green as a granny smith apple on the International circuit and Jones is aware, as you all should be that England are desperately lacking in players with long standing experience.
It was spotlighted in the RWC where important decisions in the backline and at captaincy were found wanting in the pressure cooker.
Heavens above don't bring back average quality, aged players like Easter, use someone who still has impact, like Hartley. He will be a great stepping stone for another younger hooker to overtake in a couple of years.
Instead of falling back on old defensive lines about the clubs, look at the improvement in results made at other countries who have embraced a regional development.
I have no doubt whatsoever that when the club issue is finally put to bed and the regional conveyer belt is eventually installed, England will be the benchmark team in world rugby, they will be the regular no.1 and Twickenham will be a fortress.

No you have become a dick

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

No you have become a dick

A smelly one at that.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Lol at Hartley imposing.

Ennit,
If you'd never seen rugby before then you might believe it based on his thuggish record, but he's the opposite.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Wasn't this all started by Jones saying (off the record!) that he wanted his captain to have dog, and he named checked Dylan as an example?

 

[Which Tyler]

I think it's a case of Chinese Whispers - I'd heard that he said (in private conversation) that Hartley had "some leadership qualities" as part of a pro.s and con.s discussion of the players he'd just watched.

 

[j'nuh]

Ennit,
If you'd never seen rugby before then you might believe it based on his thuggish record, but he's the opposite.

I once saw him impose all over Mccaw's face.

 

[The Jones Boy]

He's tough and he's got a mean streak, you need someone in your pack who has it.
Johnson did a fine job for England in his day.
At the last RWC England didn't have a mad dog in their pack and they could have used some.
Obviously some players will overstep the mark from time to time but Hartley can rein it in enough to be a massive player for England over the next 2 years.
If he does get binned then at least George will get a run for the scrums until he gets back on.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Comparing Hartley with Johnson in terms of enforcers.


Dear god.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Yeah I know, but the truth is the English pack, at this time, doesn't have one, and having one, is better than having none.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Yeah I know, but the truth is the English pack, at this time, doesn't have one, and having one, is better than having none.

So you state that no one has come up with a counter argument to Hartley.

Well as a saints fan, I've watched Hartley for as long as he's been at Northampton and all his England games.

Never has he been an enforcer, never will he be an enforcer.

Let's look at why, does he put in dominant tackles? No
Dominant ball carries? No and for England I can't ever remember him breaking the game line.

What does he excel at.

Set piece, works hard on accurate line out and scrum.

Being a pest at the ruck (not really an enforcer thing).

Involvements, he always makes a high tackle count, ruck involvement etc.

He is another robshaw esque player. He fitted into the mobile pack Lancaster mentally.

At no point has he shown he has the physical ability to be an enforcer.

I'm sure you'll just ignore this but please stop talking **** about players you've seen once or twice. I come in this board to have a debate about rugby with knowledgeable fans. Not 10 year old pricks who has probably never even played rugby.