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England 2024/25

I think the thing with George is that, perhaps until recently, he hasn't shown a particular decline over time, but that he has slipped back in relative terms compared to others as a new breed, some with very non-traditional skillsets, has emerged.

In 2017 he was Lions first choice and one of the best in the world, but slipped from that status a while back and has now become a solid safe choice rather than potential difference maker. Which isn't to damn with faint praise and if he wants to tour Arg I'd definitely take him to help bring on the kids.
 
Well the first test isn't until July so it's a way off yet.

With two regular rounds to play, plus the the play-offs and the final, there's plenty of time for players play themselves into (or out of) contention.
 
BPM said:
Well the first test isn't until July so it's a way off yet.

With two regular rounds to play, plus the the play-offs and the final, there's plenty of time for players play themselves into (or out of) contention.
Click to expand...
Its going to be really interesting as these games will go towards ranking points for the World Cup seedings....so we MUST try to win them. Yet we'll be without a big part of the settled Squad SB is building.
 
I mean if we're going without trying to win them, why go at all?

Personally, I think Argentina are a little overrated. They're capable of being brilliant but they're usually no more than good. I would say the same about us TBH.

While we have few top drawer players, one of our strengths is that there isn't a huge drop off from the frontline players to the back ups in most positions. For example, no Tom Curry is OK when you have Ben or Underhill.

We're going to be weak at lock and we need to pray Ford stays fit. Otherwise, i think the side were likely to field can give Argentina a run for their money.

They're playing at home against an England squad shorn of 16 or 17 players (Lions + injuries). All the pressure is on them.
 
Yeah, I've seen people talk about this tour almost like it's an England A side and we should just send a squad of youngsters, but we've got to pick the best squad available to us IMO. There's going to be enough players getting their chances without leaving behind established players like JG.

My 36-man squad would be:
LP: Baxter, Rodd, Iyogun
HK: George (c), Langdon, Dan
TP: Heyes, Opoku-Fordjour, Fasogbon
LK: Coles, Isiekwe, Clark, Lockett
FL: B. Curry, Cunningham-South, Underhill, T. Hill, Kenningham (just, would also be perfectly happy with Pepper)
N8: T. Willis, Barbeary
SH: van Poortvliet, Randall, Porter
FH: Ford, Bailey, C. Atkinson
CE: Dingwall, Beard, Ojomoh, Woodward
WG: Roebuck, Hassell-Collins, Sleightholme, Elliott
FB: Furbank, Steward

Would leave IFW at home to recover. How long is Hendy going to be out? If he's back in time I'd probably slot him in ahead of Elliott, but Elliott is perfectly deserving of touring.

Team:
1. Baxter
2. George (c)
3. Heyes
4. Coles
5. Isiekwe
6. Cunningham-South
7. B. Curry
8. T. Willis
9. van Poortvliet
10. Ford
11. Hassell-Collins
12. Dingwall
13. Beard
14. Roebuck
15. Furbank

16. Langdon
17. Rodd
18. Opoku-Fordjour
19. Clark
20. Underhill
21. Randall
22. Bailey
23. Ojomoh

Honestly think that side could do the job over Argentina.
 
BPM said:
I mean if we're going without trying to win them, why go at all?

Personally, I think Argentina are a little overrated. They're capable of being brilliant but they're usually no more than good. I would say the same about us TBH.

While we have few top drawer players, one of our strengths is that there isn't a huge drop off from the frontline players to the back ups in most positions. For example, no Tom Curry is OK when you have Ben or Underhill.

We're going to be weak at lock and we need to pray Ford stays fit. Otherwise, i think the side were likely to field can give Argentina a run for their money.

They're playing at home against an England squad shorn of 16 or 17 players (Lions + injuries). All the pressure is on them.
Click to expand...
I was meaning more, that its often being looked at like an A team tour, with debutants listed left and right (myself included) but in reality we need to be sending as full strength side as we can with the odd position where genuinely required looking at the future.
 
Pieter Steph du Teague said:
Yeah, I've seen people talk about this tour almost like it's an England A side and we should just send a squad of youngsters, but we've got to pick the best squad available to us IMO. There's going to be enough players getting their chances without leaving behind established players like JG.

My 36-man squad would be:
LP: Baxter, Rodd, Iyogun
HK: George (c), Langdon, Dan
TP: Heyes, Opoku-Fordjour, Fasogbon
LK: Coles, Isiekwe, Clark, Lockett
FL: B. Curry, Cunningham-South, Underhill, T. Hill, Kenningham (just, would also be perfectly happy with Pepper)
N8: T. Willis, Barbeary
SH: van Poortvliet, Randall, Porter
FH: Ford, Bailey, C. Atkinson
CE: Dingwall, Beard, Ojomoh, Woodward
WG: Roebuck, Hassell-Collins, Sleightholme, Elliott
FB: Furbank, Steward

Would leave IFW at home to recover. How long is Hendy going to be out? If he's back in time I'd probably slot him in ahead of Elliott, but Elliott is perfectly deserving of touring.

Team:
1. Baxter
2. George (c)
3. Heyes
4. Coles
5. Isiekwe
6. Cunningham-South
7. B. Curry
8. T. Willis
9. van Poortvliet
10. Ford
11. Hassell-Collins
12. Dingwall
13. Beard
14. Roebuck
15. Furbank

16. Langdon
17. Rodd
18. Opoku-Fordjour
19. Clark
20. Underhill
21. Randall
22. Bailey
23. Ojomoh

Honestly think that side could do the job over Argentina.
Click to expand...
Murley absolutely should be in there. For a try and two mistakes in one England cap, he has been properly shunted!
 
Pieter Steph du Teague said:
Yeah, I've seen people talk about this tour almost like it's an England A side and we should just send a squad of youngsters, but we've got to pick the best squad available to us IMO. There's going to be enough players getting their chances without leaving behind established players like JG.

My 36-man squad would be:
LP: Baxter, Rodd, Iyogun
HK: George (c), Langdon, Dan
TP: Heyes, Opoku-Fordjour, Fasogbon
LK: Coles, Isiekwe, Clark, Lockett
FL: B. Curry, Cunningham-South, Underhill, T. Hill, Kenningham (just, would also be perfectly happy with Pepper)
N8: T. Willis, Barbeary
SH: van Poortvliet, Randall, Porter
FH: Ford, Bailey, C. Atkinson
CE: Dingwall, Beard, Ojomoh, Woodward
WG: Roebuck, Hassell-Collins, Sleightholme, Elliott
FB: Furbank, Steward

Would leave IFW at home to recover. How long is Hendy going to be out? If he's back in time I'd probably slot him in ahead of Elliott, but Elliott is perfectly deserving of touring.

Team:
1. Baxter
2. George (c)
3. Heyes
4. Coles
5. Isiekwe
6. Cunningham-South
7. B. Curry
8. T. Willis
9. van Poortvliet
10. Ford
11. Hassell-Collins
12. Dingwall
13. Beard
14. Roebuck
15. Furbank

16. Langdon
17. Rodd
18. Opoku-Fordjour
19. Clark
20. Underhill
21. Randall
22. Bailey
23. Ojomoh

Honestly think that side could do the job over Argentina.
Click to expand...
I'd pick the same starting XV and possibly the same bench.

Only squad changes I'd make are Murley over Elliott, Pepper over Barbeary (CCS covers 6 and 8), Batley over Lockett and Seb Atkinson over Woodward.

Also tempted to skip over Charlie Atkinson for Donoghue or Benson.

Not sure on the injury situation with Sleightholme, Ojomoh and Furbank?
 
Think I read that Sleightholme and Furbank due back the final round of the season

Bit iffy about their inclusion in that regard, but there's quite a while between the end of the season (especially for non playoff sides) and the tests so plenty of time to get them ready in training and/or get them another game as part of the XV side
 
Furbank could be our 2nd FH and if Ford gets called up to the lions (he won't or would be Farrell) Furbank could be our starting 10!
 
Pieter Steph du Teague said:
I was thinking similar until I remembered there's a real chance that Ford gets called up to the Lions mid-tour. Wouldn't want to be stuck in Argentina with just Bailey and Donoghue/Benson.
Click to expand...
Maybe - I'd challenge whether Atkinson is any better equipped for test rugby TBH. Also, at present Donoghue has kept the 10 shirt ahead of Bailey who played at 12 in the last round.

A bit annoying that neither will be available for the XV game.
 
Don't Skip Leg Day said:
Furbank could be our 2nd FH and if Ford gets called up to the lions (he won't or would be Farrell) Furbank could be our starting 10!
Click to expand...
Yeah. I would prefer that to Atkinson. I don't have anything against him, I just don't think he's a test 10.
 
Don't Skip Leg Day said:
Furbank could be our 2nd FH and if Ford gets called up to the lions (he won't or would be Farrell) Furbank could be our starting 10!
Click to expand...
Was actually thinking I wouldn't mind him getting a run there in the XV game if he's back, but didn't want to say it out loud :p
 

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