• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

England future management?

Tigs Man

Hall of Fame
Joined
Dec 13, 2013
Messages
17,239
Reaction score
2,789
Country Flag

Puerto Rico

Club or Nation

Wigan

If Baxter was to get involved it would prob be in a part time role on summer tours.

Baxter will not leave Exeter for a while.
 

Colombia

Academy Player
Joined
Aug 28, 2012
Messages
397
Reaction score
0
Country Flag

Colombia

I must admit I don't like all this "Eddie must mentor an English coach to take over" nonsense, it's just impeding his right to bring in whoever he wants and potentially compromising him.
 

Tony Manx

TRF Season Ticket Holder
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
8,545
Reaction score
1
Club or Nation

Biarritz

I must admit I don't like all this "Eddie must mentor an English coach to take over" nonsense, it's just impeding his right to bring in whoever he wants and potentially compromising him.
If true, this is another handicap that the RFU have placed on Jones and, worse, he has accepted! Again I say, if true!!

How much does he need the job and the attendant money??

He was in such a powerful negotiation position - as there was simply no real other contenders and Ritchie had to get him to stem calls for his own head - you would have thought he could get all his own way rather than having to potentially suck up two handicaps!!
 

Tigs Man

Hall of Fame
Joined
Dec 13, 2013
Messages
17,239
Reaction score
2,789
Country Flag

Puerto Rico

Club or Nation

Wigan

Doubt it is true just typical media going on and on about bringing in a AP Head coach or Director of Rugby as second in command.
 

psychic duck

International
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
5,095
Reaction score
1
Not sure it's been said here yet, but Eddie already said he's going to try and bring Borthwick with him.
 

jordiev

Academy Player
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Messages
151
Reaction score
0
Country Flag

Scotland

Club or Nation

Sale

Whats going to change? Not much other than better team selections hes already bent the knee on things hes said in the past for the rfu can gaurentee central contracts the thing he said were essential wont happen as in the interview when asked he just babbled about close relationships with the clubs
 

Tony Manx

TRF Season Ticket Holder
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
8,545
Reaction score
1
Club or Nation

Biarritz

Whats going to change? Not much other than better team selections hes already bent the knee on things hes said in the past for the rfu can gaurentee central contracts the thing he said were essential wont happen as in the interview when asked he just babbled about close relationships with the clubs
I think I have posted enough to show that I would agree with this wholeheartedly!

I think he is an ok coach but that is about it.

My point is after his several about turns (to secure the pay day) who would and how can he be trusted on anything he says?

Imagine his saying to Cips, as an example, that he sees him as the front runner, can Cips really believe and rely on him or would he, bearing in mind Jones's recent history, just treat him as a bull•••?

Surely his players have to have trust and belief in their coach?
 

Maverick1987

First XV
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
2,674
Reaction score
106
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Leicester

I think I have posted enough to show that I would agree with this wholeheartedly!

I think he is an ok coach but that is about it.

My point is after his several about turns (to secure the pay day) who would and how can he be trusted on anything he says?

Imagine his saying to Cips, as an example, that he sees him as the front runner, can Cips really believe and rely on him or would he, bearing in mind Jones's recent history, just treat him as a bull•••?

Surely his players have to have trust and belief in their coach?
Why on earth would they not trust him ? I think you are calling on crap that no adult would take seriously anyway .....
 
Last edited:

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
Staff member
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
100,000,796
Reaction score
6,169
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Sale

Why on earth would they not trust him ? I think you are calling on crap that no adult would take seriously anyway .....
Ennit,
Tony clearly doesn't like Eddie Jones (/England?).
We can chalk up anything he says on the matter to that, really.
 

Tony Manx

TRF Season Ticket Holder
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
8,545
Reaction score
1
Club or Nation

Biarritz

Ennit,
Tony clearly doesn't like Eddie Jones (/England?).
We can chalk up anything he says on the matter to that, really.
Actually, I am ambivalent!

He was probably the best of what was available but It appears to me he has gone back an awful lot of things he has said in order to get the job when he did not have to.

I think that that is a sign of serious weakness when England need strength! I also do not rate one major victory in some 8 years as a really quality CV.

Like in most things, his record from now on will show how he does but I do not see him as the savior of English international rugby.

I am more than happy if he proves me wrong as international rugby needs a much better and more competitive English (and French) rugby nation!
 

Raggs

Bench Player
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
691
Reaction score
5
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

London Wasps

What things has he gone back on? And which of them could have been guaranteed by the RFU at the time of interview?
 

Tony Manx

TRF Season Ticket Holder
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
8,545
Reaction score
1
Club or Nation

Biarritz

What things has he gone back on? And which of them could have been guaranteed by the RFU at the time of interview?
Central contracts essential - "we will have to work closely with the clubs"

Overseas players should be playing - "no change to rules about overseas players"

Whilst not a change, why is a Japanese/Australian going to sing the English national anthem? That is like Hamilton singing Uber Alles because he drives a German car!!!

As is my wont, I have my opinion and other people have theirs! Neither is going to change the other(s) so will now just leave events to pan out.........

Good luck to Jones - squash my doubts!!
 

TRF_Peat

Super Moderator
Joined
Jun 11, 2010
Messages
10,086
Reaction score
0
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Ulster

Can see Tony's point tbh - he has changed his tune a fair deal. And, aye, I doubt the RFU would have given him what he wants - at which point one idly wonders what else the RFU might get their way on in the future. I think the levels of mistrust are overstated and don't think we were getting anyone who wasn't going to go with the RFU here - but there's a definite change from his comments to the press.
 

Raggs

Bench Player
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
691
Reaction score
5
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

London Wasps

Central contracts essential - "we will have to work closely with the clubs"

Overseas players should be playing - "no change to rules about overseas players"

Whilst not a change, why is a Japanese/Australian going to sing the English national anthem? That is like Hamilton singing Uber Alles because he drives a German car!!!

As is my wont, I have my opinion and other people have theirs! Neither is going to change the other(s) so will now just leave events to pan out.........

Good luck to Jones - squash my doubts!!
How exactly are the RFU going to guarantee Central Contracts to Jones? The PRL have already stated that they will not play centrally contracted players (from the RFU or any other Nation). They'll have told him that the EPS agreement is discussed very soon, and he can bash his head as much as he likes with their support then. The RFU already has control over rest and extra release of players with the EPS agreement, it's also far more flexible than a central contract would be with regards to a player no longer being wanted (or getting long term injury, better Leicester paying for Tuilagi than England).

Overseas, again, not something the RFU can guarantee him a reverse in position of, but again, something he can try and amend the EPS for.

He was stirring, selling clicks, exactly what a newspaper pundit should do.

As for the Anthem, you are aware that the queen is the queen of Aus too? And Jones himself said that when he was at school he sung the anthem every morning. It's not the English national anthem anyway, it's the British national anthem (England doesn't have one), and as part of the commonwealth, and a subject of the queen (however archaic you may or may not believe that to be), there's nothing out of place for Jones to be singing God Save the Queen.
 

j'nuh

First XV
Joined
Sep 8, 2011
Messages
4,209
Reaction score
29
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Gloucester

People change their minds on stuff, it happens.

I've read a good point on central contracts recently.

England players get £15k match appearances fees. ~10 games a year is around £150k. There are also bonuses if the team do well, and I presume some kind of payment for being in the EPS. Also, for the EPS agreement, the RFU is giving PRL clubs £102m over the next 8 years, along with some of the money earned for the 4th Autumn International.

In return:
The England team coaches and RFU National Academy coaches will have access to and regular contact with all senior EPS players to provide and deliver programme support in respect of the individual elite player management programmes.
A medical protocol has been agreed for the Senior EPS to ensure that each player is in the best possible physical condition and health at all times.
So basically, players have a massive monetary incentive for playing for England. Clubs get compensation for it. In return, England get to deliver support on "elite player management programmes" (i.e. they get to determine how the clubs train their internationals, presumably allowing positional changes), and a medical protocol to keep players in the best physical condition (i.e. resting). It's effectively central contracts by a different means.

Arguably it's better for England though. We don't need to be bound to players for years like you would with central contracts; we can change players at every EPS. It also works on an incentive system - you have to work for your international money. Whereas central contracts would just be hand-outs. You hope that an incentive system would push players harder.
 
Last edited:

Tigs Man

Hall of Fame
Joined
Dec 13, 2013
Messages
17,239
Reaction score
2,789
Country Flag

Puerto Rico

Club or Nation

Wigan

I doubt you can hold someone to something they wrote as a columnist with the intention to stir the pot.

Things are different looking from inside rather than the outside.
 

TRF_Peat

Super Moderator
Joined
Jun 11, 2010
Messages
10,086
Reaction score
0
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Ulster

I really do not buy the suggestion that Jones was saying all of that for giggles/has genuinely totally changed his mind. Seems far more likely he was told "Won't happen, do you want the job or not" and went "Ok, yeah, we'll do it your way."
 

psychic duck

International
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
5,095
Reaction score
1
Coach takes the company line after joining the company. Hardly a shocker.
 

ratsapprentice

Hall of Fame
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Messages
12,105
Reaction score
793
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

England

Jones also specifically said he thought Armitage should have been picked under the "exceptional circumstances" rule during the world cup - not generally.

That was also the time where he said:

Ben Morgan and Tom Wood don’t play over the ball, and Robshaw only half does it, so it looks like an uphill battle for England.“To me, Robshaw is an outstanding club player, but at international level he just doesn’t have that point of difference,” he added.
“He carries okay, he tackles okay, but he’s not outstandingly good in any area. I think that is his limiting factor. He’s a good workmanlike player, but he does not have the specialist skills and the instinct as an openside that Pocock has.”
Judging by that, can we assume that he's going to want at least two players who can (genuinely) compete on the floor in his back row?
 

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
Staff member
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
100,000,796
Reaction score
6,169
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Sale

Judging by that, can we assume that he's going to want at least two players who can (genuinely) compete on the floor in his back row?
Robshaw and Wood must be bricking it
 
Top