England Rugby 2019/20 Thread

[Reiser99]

Now we can really have a better look at who has missed out. Already got Spencer and McConnochie, I'd add Sam & Joe Simmonds & Dombrandt. Tbh apart from 9, 10 and 15 I can't see too many selections to really gripe about. Few injuries who will come back but apart from Furbank, Heinz and Youngs, I can't say any of those players don't deserve to be there. Umaga possibly, but he has played well too. Still a bit harsh on Simmonds. Maybe again Sam Simmonds or Dombrandt for Ludlam. Be interesting to see how Ribbans gets on, but without Lawes or Kruis available, the only other player might be Isiekwe. Possibly if Skinner hadn't been capped for Scotland, but we'll never know.

For Italy I can see Jones going safe to try and secure the bonus point + margin rather than taking a risk.

1: Mako
2: George
3: Sinckler
4: Itoje
5: Launchbury
6: Underhill
7: Curry
8: Billy
9: Youngs
10: Farrell
11: May
12: Slade
13: JJ (Though could be Lawrence)
14: Cokanasigna
15: Watson

16: Singleton
17: Genge
18: Williams
19: Ewels
20: Ludlum
21: Heinz
22: Umaga (Can't clone JJ, so not sure why I put him twice.)
23: Furbank

 

[Reiser99]

Wait just notice Ribbans wtf.

I mentioned that above, but who would you have otherwise? If he starts then there is a big question to be answered.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Wait just notice Ribbans wtf.

In place of Lawes I think. Is he injured?

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Now we can really have a better look at who has missed out. Already got Spencer and McConnochie, I'd add Sam & Joe Simmonds & Dombrandt. Tbh apart from 9, 10 and 15 I can't see too many selections to really gripe about. Few injuries who will come back but apart from Furbank, Heinz and Youngs, I can't say any of those players don't deserve to be there. Umaga possibly, but he has played well too. Still a bit harsh on Simmonds. Maybe again Sam Simmonds or Dombrandt for Ludlam. Be interesting to see how Ribbans gets on, but without Lawes or Kruis available, the only other player might be Isiekwe. Possibly if Skinner hadn't been capped for Scotland, but we'll never know.

For Italy I can see Jones going safe to try and secure the bonus point + margin rather than taking a risk.

1: Mako
2: George
3: Sinckler
4: Itoje
5: Launchbury
6: Underhill
7: Curry
8: Billy
9: Youngs
10: Farrell
11: May
12: Slade
13: JJ (Though could be Lawrence)
14: Cokanasigna
15: Watson

16: Singleton
17: Genge
18: Williams
19: Ewels
20: Ludlum
21: Heinz
22: Joseph
23: Furbank

That'd be bold with no real 10 cover (unless you're thinking Slade or furbank)

 

[Reiser99]

That'd be bold with no real 10 cover (unless you're thinking Slade or furbank)

Hmm true. Also just realised I put JJ in twice, so Heinz, Umaga and Furbank.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I mentioned that above, but who would you have otherwise? If he starts then there is a big question to be answered.

Honestly I would prefer Stooke sod it I would prefer Witty also.

I find it crazy how we have a 22 year old 6ft 7 19 stone Internationally capped champions cup winning lock that since he's gone on loan has vanished off the face of the earth.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah wtf, I think I skimmed over it before
Dombrandt being dropped is ludicrous

Can only hope Eddie really is shackled by the EPS changes clause.

I mean I like Ludlam, but him over Simmonds? Come on...

I know people on here like dunking on Isiekwe atm, but he should be there especially as injury replacement for Lawes (so as a lock/6 hybrid).

 

[MarkyH]

Malins to cover 10 ?

Lawrence usually plays 12?

 

[Reiser99]

Honestly I would prefer Stooke sod it I would prefer Witty also.

I find it crazy how we have a 22 year old 6ft 7 19 stone Internationally capped champions cup winning lock that since he's gone on loan has vanished off the face of the earth.

True, I guess I've just accepted he wasn't going to be there having not really become a starter for Saints. Having said that Saints have been dire since lockdown and their selection decisions should be called into question.

 

[MarkyH]

1: Mako
2: George
3: Sinckler
4: Itoje
5: Launchbury
6: Underhill
7: Curry
8: Billy
9: Youngs
10: Farrell
11: May
12: Lawrence
13: Slade
14: Cokanasigna
15: Watson

16: Singleton
17: Genge
18: Williams
19: Hill
20: Willis
21: Earl
22: Robson
23: Malins

Is how I would go. Willis is the most impressive uncapped player around at the moment. And Malins can cover 10/15. Hence 6/2 split. Want 2 x Backrow cover just cause I want to see the speed and power of Earl and Willis coming on and carrying at 50/60 minutes, or until BV flatter to deceive.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Still shocked at our lock of options at 8 and 10. I still think Eddie's picks are deliberate to annoy the media and fans to be honest as that is no way The best selection of players he could choose.

 

[Reiser99]

1: Mako
2: George
3: Sinckler
4: Itoje
5: Launchbury
6: Underhill
7: Curry
8: Billy
9: Youngs
10: Farrell
11: May
12: Lawrence
13: Slade
14: Cokanasigna
15: Watson

16: Singleton
17: Genge
18: Williams
19: Hill
20: Willis
21: Earl
22: Robson
23: Malins

Is how I would go. Willis is the most impressive uncapped player around at the moment. And Malins can cover 10/15. Hence 6/2 split. Want 2 x Backrow cover just cause I want to see the speed and power of Earl and Willis coming on and carrying at 50/60 minutes, or until BV flatter to deceive.

I could definitely get behind that team. Obviously not perfect with Youngs starting, but otherwise no major complaints. I'd possibly like to see Marchant there as I think he's a real talent. Possibly in place of Earl with Slade able to shift to 10/15 if needed.

 

[MarkyH]

I could definitely get behind that team. Obviously not perfect with Youngs starting, but otherwise no major complaints. I'd possibly like to see Marchant there as I think he's a real talent. Possibly in place of Earl with Slade able to shift to 10/15 if needed.

I'd love to be able to get JJ or Marchant in too. It's a position we're looking so much stronger at. I'd love to see Ted Hill get a run out during these internationals. Seem so blessed in certain positions, but don't pick potential where we need to trial it... Like at 9

 

[Reiser99]

I'd love to be able to get JJ or Marchant in too. It's a position we're looking so much stronger at. I'd love to see Ted Hill get a run out during these internationals. Seem so blessed in certain positions, but don't pick potential where we need to trial it... Like at 9

Agreed. I'm dreading the 9 situation in 2023.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Loosehead: Genge, Vunipola, Obano – Happy here. Guessing that Marler's either injured or not up to conditioning standards, although I wouldn't really mind if he's just not selected since he's not going to be around for 2023. Personally not a massive fan of Obano and personally prefer Boyce out of the Bath looseheads but I know that a lot of other people rate him so I accept that I'm just not seeing something in him.

Hooker: George, Dunn, Singleton – Pretty uninspiring selection here but it's not obvious what else could be done. Maybe a Walker bro or Oghre in instead of Singleton as a younger, more exciting option?

Tighthead: Sinckler, Stuart, Williams – Happy again here. Would maybe have been good to see Heyes in for Williams, again as a younger, more exciting option but can't complain with it too much.

Lock: Itoje, Launchbury, Hill, Ewels, Ribbans – Glad that Hill's made it in and I really hope to see him get some caps. Has been the form English lock since lockdown by some distance IMO. Still not really sure what EJ sees in Ewels but there must be something about him for him to have stayed around this long. Seems I rate Ribbans higher than others as there's a lot of confusion about him being in there but I quite like his inclusion. No Isiekwe is disappointing but we've known he wasn't going to be in for a few weeks now.

Back Row: Curry, Willis, Underhill, Earl, Vunipola, Hill, Ludlam – Dombrandt's omission may be the most disappointing in the squad for me. Especially with Vunipola being the only real 8 in the squad. Surely we could've done without Ludlam? Glad Willis is in though, he deserves to start.

Scrum Half: Robson, Youngs, Heinz – Spencer's omission still confusing but like Isiekwe, we've known about it for a while. Good to see Robson in there but can't see him getting played. Youngs and Heinz aren't in there to get experience so why include them if not to play? Mitchell missing out is disappointing too.

Fly Half: Farrell, Umaga – Gutted for Simmonds. Not sure what more he could do to be included. Umaga should be behind both Simmonds and Smith out of the young 10s IMO. Will be good to see a young 10 getting some game time with Ford out… but why him?

Centres: Slade, Joseph, Lawrence, Marchant – Actually quite happy here. Concerning that all 4 are 13s but they are the 4 form centres IMO and Lawrence and Slade could both do a good job at 12.

Back Three: May, Watson, Cokonasiga, Thorley, Malins, Furbank – Weird that Furbank's made it in but in fairness I thought he did well in the 2 games that he played in February. Didn't set the world alight but other than a couple of knock ons didn't make any glaring errors. Has been poor since the restart though. I'm very glad to see Malins in as he's the future of the 15 shirt IMO. Wouldn't hate to see him go straight in at 15 although I think it'll be Watson. Wings are as expected really.

Eddie's 23:
Vunipola George Sinckler
Itoje Ewels
Curry Vunipola Underhill
Youngs Farrell
Slade Joseph
May Watson Cokonasiga

Genge Dunn Stuart
Launchbury Willis
Heinz Umaga Furbank

My 23:
Genge George Sinckler
Itoje Hill
Willis Vunipola Curry
Robson Farrell
Lawrence Slade
May Malins Watson

Vunipola Dunn Stuart
Launchbury Earl
Youngs Joseph Cokonasiga

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

McConnochie got picked for the RWC on the basis of very little. Now that he's playing some v good rugby he's canned.

If I was Mr or Mrs Simmonds I'd be wondering who my offspring had upset. No room for either?

Dombrandt's excursion is as bizarre as Furbank's inclusion.

Shame about Spencer but pleased for Robson. Heinz's selection gives 57 reasons for bafflement.

Ribbans is decent enough but doesn't really scream international. Isiekwe surely should be in this squad.

 

[Which Tyler]

Mako Vunipola, Ellis Genge, Beno Obano
Jamie George, Tom Dunn, Jack Singleton
Kyle Sinckler, Will Stuart, Harry Williams

No complaints - they're simply the best available in their positions

Maro Itoje, Jonny Hill, Charlie Ewels, Joe Launchbury, David Ribbans

No complaints - 2 left standing from the old guard of 4 + the next cab off the rank in Ewels (I accept that there must be something there I'm not seeing), the prem lock with best form in Hill; and then it was 1 of 3 from Saints (even if I think Isiekwe would be a better investment)

Jack Willis, Ted Hill, Lewis Ludlam, Tom Curry, Sam Underhill
Billy Vunipola, Ben Earl

No complaints - the 3 in possession, the 1 backrower who's form simply demands inclusion, and then 3 of the remaining 8 players all fighting for those slots. 12 into 7 means that there will always be 5 who can feel harshly done by.

Ben Youngs, Willi Heinz, Dan Robson
Owen Farrell, Jacob Umaga

At least there's 3 SHs, even if 2 of them don't deserve to be there.
3rd choice FH was always going to be a judgement call, whilst I'd have had JSimonds here, you can't argue that Umaga & Smith aren't the ones who've been groomed ahead of him.

Henry Slade, Ollie Lawrence
Jonathan Joseph, Joe Marchant,

No complaints TBH - I don't have a problem with Slade / Lawrence at IC; the way they both play the game suits the position - in Slade's case, moreso than OC does.
Would have been nice to see James / Redpath involved, but Cam at least should be no more than an apprentice just yet. Devoto looks like being one of those players who simply never fulfills his potential - losing his automatic starter spot at club level leaves us with no grounds to moan.

Jonny May, Anthony Watson, Ollie Thorley, Joe Cokanasiga
Max Malins George Furbank

Our 2 best wingers, alongside 1 of the 2 wingers in best form, and our best prospect - can't really complain at that.
Malins absolutely deserves to be there, Furbank absolutely doesn't


All in all, there are only 2 players who shouldn't be there (IMO). There's only room for 1 of Youngs / Heinz; and Furbank; These selections feel like Stubborn Eddie. Spencer / Mitchell should have the SH spot, and McConnochie should probably have the FB spot (more likely wing, with Watson shifting back)
We can all moan about who SHOULD have been at backrow, or FH, but realistically, there were always going to be complaints, and these are differences of opinion, rather than mistakes.

McConnochie got picked for the RWC on the basis of very little. Now that he's playing some v good rugby he's canned.

Worth pointing out once again, that that is simply not true. He was brilliant last season

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Centres: Slade, Joseph, Lawrence, Marchant – Actually quite happy here. Concerning that all 4 are 13s but they are the 4 form centres IMO and Lawrence and Slade could both do a good job at 12.

Slade should start at 13 and not move anywhere else mid match unless really forced by injury. He's found his niche and is looking very good. Let's start Lawrence at 12.

I can't watch JJ now without getting really annoyed at his little jump before he does anything with the ball. Still a decent player but not first choice for me.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Am I right in saying that Cipriani in the 3rd SA test in 2018 was the only time anyone other than Ford or Farrell has played 10 in a capped game under Jones?