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TRF_Olyy said:
I've always been Farrell's biggest champion on here, but he had a shocking Autumn - and then who's behind? an out of position Slade, who's shown multiple times he should only be at 13?
We need to be looking at proper options at 12, but we've lost the best one we've got


This is probably a discussion for the England thread though :p
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The issue with Farrell, is he is not a natural playmaker.

For Sarries, he had Wigglesworth, Barritt, and Goode reading the game for him.
For England there isn't the voices telling him.
TBH, Johnny could be the same, with Greenwood and Catt being his eyes.
Slade is a great partnership and now seems to be happier to call the shots.
Malins would be a good option at FB as he reads the game so well.
That leaves a running threat at IC, and 2 wingers who can catch to support Malins.
ATM, Lawrence, May and Watson would have those shirts, May on credit as he has not done much for Gloucs.

Daly would be the bench replacement, as he can cover 4 positions, with Slade and Malins the reserve 10s.
 
living sacrifice said:
I think we looked best with Farrell, Manu & Slade to be honest.
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With England vs New Zealand tinted spectacles, yes. I only watched the game live and then one or two analysis videos shortly afterwards, but my recollection is that in that game, they didn't pose too many problems for New Zealand, it was a number of forwards having outstanding carrying games that did the damage. The outstanding feature of the midfield was Tuilagi's defensive shift as I remember it.
 
On Tighthead, I’d (quite controversially, I imagine) go for 3. Heyes 18. Cole.

IMO Heyes has the most potential of the young English tightheads and is playing at a standard where he’d be a capable international. With our 1st and 2nd choice tightheads out, I doubt that we’ll get a much better opportunity to see whether he’s up to scratch.

The reason I’d start him and have Cole on the bench is that if it turns out that Heyes isn’t ready yet and is getting handily beaten in scrums, we know that at the very least Cole can come on and secure the scrum, which I don’t think can necessarily be said of Williams. This way around, we find out early if Heyes is up to standard and can easily fix the issue if he’s not by bringing on Cole, rather than being stuck with a tighthead who isn’t a good enough scrummager for the last 20-30 minutes with no way of replacing him. Plus, Cole’s likely mentored Heyes through his entire Leicester 1st XV career; it makes sense to have him do it at international level as well.
 
TBeastT said:
On Tighthead, I’d (quite controversially, I imagine) go for 3. Heyes 18. Cole.

IMO Heyes has the most potential of the young English tightheads and is playing at a standard where he’d be a capable international. With our 1st and 2nd choice tightheads out, I doubt that we’ll get a much better opportunity to see whether he’s up to scratch.

The reason I’d start him and have Cole on the bench is that if it turns out that Heyes isn’t ready yet and is getting handily beaten in scrums, we know that at the very least Cole can come on and secure the scrum, which I don’t think can necessarily be said of Williams. This way around, we find out early if Heyes is up to standard and can easily fix the issue if he’s not by bringing on Cole, rather than being stuck with a tighthead who isn’t a good enough scrummager for the last 20-30 minutes with no way of replacing him. Plus, Cole’s likely mentored Heyes through his entire Leicester 1st XV career; it makes sense to have him do it at international level as well.
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Neat theory but if he names a full squad with only 2 THs that will play through the whole tournament (barring real or imagined injuries) I’d be amazed if it’s those 2.

For a one off match possibly, but not a whole tournament where the squad will be in a bubble. Both are risks - Heyes is inexperienced while Jones clearly cooled on Cole over a period and his last appearance when he totally did not anchor the scrum when coming off the bench will be seared in Jones mind. And once Jones shuts the door on someone it tends to stay shut.

Williams has been there or thereabouts for a while. He has a few caps and knows most of the systems. If his scrummaging hasn’t gone totally to pot it would be illogical not to include him. And Schonert would be a good call for the bench.

Knowing Jones he’ll probably resurrect Paul Hill.
 
TBeastT said:
On Tighthead, I’d (quite controversially, I imagine) go for 3. Heyes 18. Cole.

IMO Heyes has the most potential of the young English tightheads and is playing at a standard where he’d be a capable international. With our 1st and 2nd choice tightheads out, I doubt that we’ll get a much better opportunity to see whether he’s up to scratch.

The reason I’d start him and have Cole on the bench is that if it turns out that Heyes isn’t ready yet and is getting handily beaten in scrums, we know that at the very least Cole can come on and secure the scrum, which I don’t think can necessarily be said of Williams. This way around, we find out early if Heyes is up to standard and can easily fix the issue if he’s not by bringing on Cole, rather than being stuck with a tighthead who isn’t a good enough scrummager for the last 20-30 minutes with no way of replacing him. Plus, Cole’s likely mentored Heyes through his entire Leicester 1st XV career; it makes sense to have him do it at international level as well.
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Williams is still a lot more solid than Cole. Williams problem is that outside the scrum he doesn’t seem to offer what you’d want from a top international. I don’t think anyone had scrum concerns with Williams so Cole can stay in retirement where he belongs.
 
living sacrifice said:
Williams is still a lot more solid than Cole. Williams problem is that outside the scrum he doesn’t seem to offer what you’d want from a top international. I don’t think anyone had scrum concerns with Williams so Cole can stay in retirement where he belongs.
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Maybe not world class but if he’s solid in the scrum I’ll take that every day of the week.

Far bigger issues to worry about than a prop who can scrummage but isn’t fly half material.
 
Looks like the Bath outbreak was actually false positives, so Stuart (/JJ/Watson/Underhill) should be available

Stuart/Williams is a decent enough tighthead duo for one game - especially if we can glue a mullet wig on Stuart and get his pre-haircut form back
 
I'm not sure Eddie would take 3 scrum halfs in a 28 man squad; he only took two to the world cup and we o my saw 3 in the 6N because Heinz got injured.

I suspect it just means Youngs plays 80, but maybe Eddie will surprise us and go Robson Randall
 
TRF_Olyy said:
With 28players I can't see EJ having three scrumhalves (he only took two to a world cup!)

Robson binned off?
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Mail reporting all 3 are in. Watch us take

4 second rows, 5 back rowers, 7 front rowers, 3 SH, 2 fh, 5 back 3 and 2 centres I reckon.

Right, my final prediction -

Mako, Genge, Obano (unless Marler actually wants to go.

George, LCD

Sinks and Stuart (watch the rfu meddle with his ban)

Itoje, hill, launchbury, ewels

Curry, Underhill, Billy, earl, Willis

Youngs, Randall, Robson

Faz, Ford

Slade, Joseph,

Daly, May, Watson, Malins, Odogwu

Feel confident about that, which means I've missed something glaring!
 
Well seems the Jocks
noah_jo said:
Mail reporting all 3 are in. Watch us take

4 second rows, 5 back rowers, 7 front rowers, 3 SH, 2 fh, 5 back 3 and 2 centres I reckon.

Right, my final prediction -

Mako, Genge, Obano (unless Marler actually wants to go.

George, LCD

Sinks and Stuart (watch the rfu meddle with his ban)

Itoje, hill, launchbury, ewels

Curry, Underhill, Billy, earl, Willis

Youngs, Randall, Robson

Faz, Ford

Slade, Joseph,

Daly, May, Watson, Malins, Odogwu

Feel confident about that, which means I've missed something glaring!
Click to expand...

If that's what he goes with, I'd be pretty happy. Personally I'd like to see how Willis goes at 8. Yeah I know I've whinged about playing players out of position but he seems he could do Vunipolas game and more. Plus the jackalling power of Curry, Underhill, Willis and Itoje all in the forwards at the same time is ridiculous, such a change from just 4 years ago.

I'd like to see JJ replaced at some point. I used to be a fan but just haven't seen him do much in games recently apart from the odd spark. Form fell off a while ago and doesn't seem to have returned. He's not bad and not someone we need to replace but he's just sort of "there" at the moment. Games go by and I wouldn't know if he played in them or not.
 
noah_jo said:
Mail reporting all 3 are in. Watch us take

4 second rows, 5 back rowers, 7 front rowers, 3 SH, 2 fh, 5 back 3 and 2 centres I reckon.

Right, my final prediction -

Mako, Genge, Obano (unless Marler actually wants to go.

George, LCD

Sinks and Stuart (watch the rfu meddle with his ban)

Itoje, hill, launchbury, ewels

Curry, Underhill, Billy, earl, Willis

Youngs, Randall, Robson

Faz, Ford

Slade, Joseph,

Daly, May, Watson, Malins, Odogwu

Feel confident about that, which means I've missed something glaring!
Click to expand...
Is odogwu acctually a thing? He's class there is no doubt but doesnt he have that classic problem you get from great attacking players? Weak in defence?.

Knowing EJ he will try and make him into a Kyle Eastmond style 12...

Id be happy with that team btw even with Odogwu as i said he's class it's just is he ready
 
ragerancher said:
Well seems the Jocks


If that's what he goes with, I'd be pretty happy. Personally I'd like to see how Willis goes at 8. Yeah I know I've whinged about playing players out of position but he seems he could do Vunipolas game and more. Plus the jackalling power of Curry, Underhill, Willis and Itoje all in the forwards at the same time is ridiculous, such a change from just 4 years ago.

I'd like to see JJ replaced at some point. I used to be a fan but just haven't seen him do much in games recently apart from the odd spark. Form fell off a while ago and doesn't seem to have returned. He's not bad and not someone we need to replace but he's just sort of "there" at the moment. Games go by and I wouldn't know if he played in them or not.
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As we’re getting the hang of jackalling it can’t be long before it gets banned on concussion grounds and real rucking - where the emphasis is on driving over the ball - gets brought back.

Agree totally on JJ. He’s now a won’t do anything stupid or interesting safe 2nd / 3rd choice OC. And I will scream if I see him anywhere near the wing. Time to move on.

Haven’t followed it too closely but given the Sco and Wal squads I’m assuming 28 was our own choice and not imposed?
 
Old Hooker said:
Haven’t followed it too closely but given the Sco and Wal squads I’m assuming 28 was our own choice and not imposed?
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Aye, I imagine it was a compromise between RFU and PRL:
RFU saying they want to keep the entire team in a bubble at their training ground, and not release anyone back to their clubs, to minimise risk of infection - PRL says that's OK as long as you take the minimum number of players you can manage
 
TRF_Olyy said:
Aye, I imagine it was a compromise between RFU and PRL:
RFU saying they want to keep the entire team in a bubble at their training ground, and not release anyone back to their clubs, to minimise risk of infection - PRL says that's OK as long as you take the minimum number of players you can manage
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It makes logical sense if those 5 players are unlikely to see a game its better for them to be playing than having a 2 month rest then be in the tail end of the season.
 
noah_jo said:
Mail reporting all 3 are in. Watch us take

4 second rows, 5 back rowers, 7 front rowers, 3 SH, 2 fh, 5 back 3 and 2 centres I reckon.

Right, my final prediction -

Mako, Genge, Obano (unless Marler actually wants to go.

George, LCD

Sinks and Stuart (watch the rfu meddle with his ban)

Itoje, hill, launchbury, ewels

Curry, Underhill, Billy, earl, Willis

Youngs, Randall, Robson

Faz, Ford

Slade, Joseph,

Daly, May, Watson, Malins, Odogwu

Feel confident about that, which means I've missed something glaring!
Click to expand...
Lawes for ewels
 
noah_jo said:
Mail reporting all 3 are in. Watch us take

4 second rows, 5 back rowers, 7 front rowers, 3 SH, 2 fh, 5 back 3 and 2 centres I reckon.

Right, my final prediction -

Mako, Genge, Obano (unless Marler actually wants to go.

George, LCD

Sinks and Stuart (watch the rfu meddle with his ban)

Itoje, hill, launchbury, ewels

Curry, Underhill, Billy, earl, Willis

Youngs, Randall, Robson

Faz, Ford

Slade, Joseph,

Daly, May, Watson, Malins, Odogwu

Feel confident about that, which means I've missed something glaring!
Click to expand...
No Lawrence? Pretty sure he'd be in there.
 
Am I the only one fantasising about a future powerhouse backline of Tuilagi and Lawrence at centre, Odogwu and Earl on the wing and Cokanasiga at fullback?
 
Not Eddie Jones said:
Cokanasiga at fullback
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Just imagine how bad that would be, haha - shades of when we shoehorned Ugo in there, and Cueto had to take over because he was so shocking.

Tuilagi will be gone to France or Japan at the end of the season, Sanderson has alluded to not offering him a new contract and I doubt anyone else in the Prem would be willing to pay as much as he wants, for as little as he plays.
 
TRF_Olyy said:
Just imagine how bad that would be, haha - shades of when we shoehorned Ugo in there, and Cueto had to take over because he was so shocking.

Tuilagi will be gone to France or Japan at the end of the season, Sanderson has alluded to not offering him a new contract and I doubt anyone else in the Prem would be willing to pay as much as he wants, for as little as he plays.
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You're ruining my fantasy! :mad:

To be fair, Odogwu doesn't even have a cap yet and Earl on the wing has really been more Eddie talk than actual play, so it was pretty far fetched anyway. :)
 
noah_jo said:
Maybe for Joseph or Malins? I'm not sure where he fits if Odogwu is in
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I dunno, I wonder if Odogwu is just paper talk. Lawrence was starting at 13 in the ANC and was only dropped due to injury. If he's fit, I think Eddie sticks with him as his starting 13. He didn't set the world on fire, but he didn't do anything wrong and he has bags of potential. Eddie stuck with Slade in similar circumstances and he turned out alright.
 
The only issue I see with Lawrence is that he's been out injured recently (last game was Boxing day, and he only played one other this season for Wuss) - he was due back for the two Europe rounds but....yeah
If there's questions over his match fitness he might miss out - as I said, above, though: He'd probably be my starter this tournament, just to see where his level/ceiling really is. Because he showed a lot of promise, and was improving every game, in the Autumn.



Just so everyone's aware: I'll lock this thread for the duration of the 6N, and make a 6N squad thread when the team is announced later.
Better to keep everything in one place - in previous years we've had to same posts/conversations happening in multiple threads all over the place, was a right mess.
 
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