England Saxons v Ireland Wolfhounds Kingsholm, Gloucester; 25/1/14 KO 1700

[j'nuh]

So when are Leicester going to announce their new star 10? :lol:

The main positives: Daly, Miller, Dickinson, Stooke.

The main disappointments: most of the rest of the team.

Just terrible: Burns, Wallace.

MOTM for me: the Irish defence coach.

The main thing I'm disappointed in is the tactics we used. We kicked long when with the wind - OK. We also kicked long when into the wind? When the wind holds up the ball, why not a contested box kick or up and under? Especially with the type of back three we had out today? Why was it that other than Stooke and Dickinson, our second and back rows were absolutely anonymous? Never got in position to support the carry, barely ever got into the position to make the carry, or provide dummy runners for the backline to run behind etc. Whoever the coach is needs looking at. Terrible performance from the pack.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

I Can't believe that from ****ing burns. What a useful piece of ****

Jordi Murphy done well in his time on the field, good win with the scoreline more looking like 14-3 since their try was only an intercept..

Edit: I do like Scott Quinnell, but he goes on for so long, especially in the build up

 

[munstermuffin]

Must say England could've and should've won though. They gifted us 14 points and as stats show they had all ball and well our defence won that.

 

[Maverick1987]

Jordi Murphy done well in his time on the field, good win with the scoreline more looking like 14-3 since their try was only an intercept..

Edit: I do like Scott Quinnell, but he goes on for so long, especially in the build up

On the intercepted try it was well positioned and crap passing by Madigan and the IC (not sure of name)

On your theory that it doesn't count well madigans try shouldn't have counted because the tackling wasn't good

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Must say England could've and should've won though. They gifted us 14 points and as stats show they had all ball and well our defence won that.

Could've yes, should've? Not so sure. Stats don't show everything, in the second half and some of the first half they had so much possession and chances and just didn't take them - that's not Ireland's fault, that's England's lack of precision.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

On the intercepted try it was well positioned and crap passing by Madigan and the IC (not sure of name)

On your theory that it doesn't count well madigans try shouldn't have counted because the tackling wasn't good

I don't mean it shouldn't count lol I meant we shouldn't worry too much about the fact we let in a try since it was just a poor error.

 

[munstermuffin]

Could've yes, should've? Not so sure. Stats don't show everything, in the second half and some of the first half they had so much possession and chances and just didn't take them - that's not Ireland's fault, that's England's lack of precision.

Exactly my point. They were poor and for all the ball and territory they should have done better even given the conditions

 

[ratsapprentice]

I think Sam Hill went off with either a broken nose or a really bad facial cut.
That was the moment we lost the game IMO.

It meant we had very little go forward in the middle of the park and crucially, we couldn't replace Burns.

Yes we were bettered at the breakdown, but the poor looping passes from Burns did more damage.

That absolute cluster**** at the end sums up Burns' year - regardless of his vision his execution has been slapstick.

 

[big ginger 8]

Looking at that from a systems point of view instead individual player point of view here are some thoughts.

While the defence worked very well tonight I am a bit worried. It's quite clear we were employing the 13 as a shooter a lot (helped out by Burns' ridiculous passing) however that was with the young pacy Henshaw. BO'D who used to be the master of this has being caught out quite badly with it this season. Most noticeably vs Australia and Connacht. He doesn't seem to have pace for it anymore. If he's going to have to be very smart about it because at international level we will be punished if we **** up something so high risk.

Also noticeable in the defense was that the choke tackle was still there but the chop was used a lot more. I think this possibly suits us even more as we have a lot of guys who can get down over the ball.

Finally Plumtree is really showing how much he loves a good mall. It was good in the Autumn and I think it could be a real strength of ours in the 6N.

 

[Peat]

Sod it, I enjoyed it. Its rugby, there wasn't much else on! Not a great match but still interesting.

Freddie Burns needs a hug. Joe Simpson, Elliot Daly and Rob Miller were the only guys I saw going "Yo, promote me dawg!" Dickinson and Ward did well when on - so too Sam Hill - uhm...

Iain Henderson remains a deeply worrying case of genetic engineering.

 

[psychic duck]

Didn't see the game, but I hear Rob Miller was impressive?

 

[big ginger 8]

Iain Henderson remains a deeply worrying case of genetic engineering.

I love how while most players have to go in low to tackles but he just kind of leans forward and the other player at least stops and usually goes back.

 

[j'nuh]

Yep.

It's a bit annoying how many options we have at fullback that we can't use. Any one of Brown, Foden, Miller, Daly, Nowell and Watson could be among the 15s we take to the WC. And then you have Arscott, Abendanon, Cook, Tait and Pennell who are respectable fullbacks as well.

Just wish we stopped converting talented rugby players away from positions we are worried about into 15s. Daly could stay at 13.

Speaking of Daly - why didn't he take the kicks today? Isn't he supposed to be a pretty damn good kicker?

Even if Burns recovers from this, this game will have a lasting scar on his England ambitions. Lancaster gives more credence to a player's performance in these matches, than he does to club form. He's going to have to have a cracking time at Tigers if he wants to establish himself in the next two years. Behind Ben Youngs? Good luck with that. I get the impression that Tigers may have a difficult season next year.

 

[Peat]

Sweet jesus, if Burns can't recover from this he was never international standard anyway. He's having a rough patch, fine, cool, if you're international quality you have the mind to leave that and put that to one side. Lancaster clearly has faith in him and he does know better than to judge him when he's in a really tough patch of form. If Burns recovers his form, it will be fine. This is not some watershed moment.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'm really starting to doubt his mental robustness though.
Not sure how well he's going to do in an environment like Leicester.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Nothing to drink too tonight besides miller opening the Irish up like a bag of monster munch. Cipriani will not believe his luck -he's leapt into third place without even touching a ball. And while I back burns to come back and fulfill the potential I think he has, its still pretty inexplicable how a player could fall so far out of form.

 

[j'nuh]

Sweet jesus, if Burns can't recover from this he was never international standard anyway. He's having a rough patch, fine, cool, if you're international quality you have the mind to leave that and put that to one side. Lancaster clearly has faith in him and he does know better than to judge him when he's in a really tough patch of form. If Burns recovers his form, it will be fine. This is not some watershed moment.

I think Lancaster wants Burns to come good. But he didn't have the confidence to back Burns back when Burns really was on fire, let alone now. Burns can and will recover from this, but I don't see Lancaster trusting Burns' consistency enough to oust Farrell. Especially when Ford is showing real promise.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Speaking of Daly - why didn't he take the kicks today? Isn't he supposed to be a pretty damn good kicker?

Thought that myself, too - Miller is a very good goal kicker too, he kicked for us in Biarritz the other week and slotted a 55m penalty, in pouring rain, like it was nothing.

That said, I can kind of understand sticking with Burns - he was obviously having a s**t time of it out there, and to have a note come on from the sidelines after one, or two, missed kicks would have been a real kick when he was down. I don't think he should have started as the kicker, but considering there weren't exactly a massive amount of penalty shots in the game it was probably right to stick with him (even if in hindsight the missed kicks w(c)ould have won the game).

Also noticeable in the defense was that the choke tackle was still there but the chop was used a lot more. I think this possibly suits us even more as we have a lot of guys who can get down over the ball.

I was impressed with this too, and it really stood out how our guys didn't do the same. When our forwards went to tackle the Irish players in close contact they'd wrap them up and throw them down judo style, whereas the irish would chop them down. This meant that if we wanted to compete for a turnover we had to first try and get through our own man who was on the ball, rather than get straight on.
Was just a poor tactic which they didn't need to do, and didn't adapt to change.

 

[Patchey]

Bar I was in didn't have Sky so I missed if. Can someone fill me in on a Few things,

Was Watson any good?
How was Daly?
What did Burn do at the end that was so bad?
Why was Sam Hill taken off for Slade?
Tactically, we're the Saxons as boring as it sounds?

 

[ratsapprentice]

I agree about the chop...

I don't think they beat us with their clearing out at the breakdown, but with their setup of the breakdown.
Really pushed their luck with the tackler holding on (in a good way) and blocking incoming clearouts - much more nouse.

Was Watson any good?
How was Daly?
Why was Sam Hill taken off for Slade?

Watson was good, not given any room to work with out wide but still carried well into traffic.
Defensively solid - took his try well.

Daly was great - looked classy.

Sam Hill was a blood injury, shortly followed by Hopper going off.
Meaning that Slade couldn't move to 10 even if the coaches wanted it.

What did Burn do at the end that was so bad?