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England Squad Announced
- Thread starter iWin
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The good:
Sharples, Simpson-Daniel, Robshaw, Stevens, Tuilagi,
The bad:
Mears(!), Payne, Worsely, (Armitage, Banahan, Strettle, Hape too
)
Hopefully a lot of the dross will be cut (i.e the crumblies)
From that, my 30 man would be:
Hookers: Hartley, Thompson, Chuter (lesser of two evils vs Mears)
Props: Stevens, Cole, Sheridan, Corbisiero
Locks: Lawes, Palmer, Botha
Flankers: Robshaw, Wood, Haskell, Croft
Number 8: Waldrom
Scrumhalf: Youngs, Care, Simpson
Flyhalf: Flood, Wilkinson, Hodgson
Centre: Flutey, Tuilagi, Tindall
Back-three: Sharples, Simpson-Daniel, Cueto, Ashton, Foden
Sharples can play 15, Simpson-Daniel can play 13 and Flood can play 12.
I refuse to include Hape, Banahan and/or Armitage
Sharples, Simpson-Daniel, Robshaw, Stevens, Tuilagi,
The bad:
Mears(!), Payne, Worsely, (Armitage, Banahan, Strettle, Hape too
)Hopefully a lot of the dross will be cut (i.e the crumblies)
From that, my 30 man would be:
Hookers: Hartley, Thompson, Chuter (lesser of two evils vs Mears)
Props: Stevens, Cole, Sheridan, Corbisiero
Locks: Lawes, Palmer, Botha
Flankers: Robshaw, Wood, Haskell, Croft
Number 8: Waldrom
Scrumhalf: Youngs, Care, Simpson
Flyhalf: Flood, Wilkinson, Hodgson
Centre: Flutey, Tuilagi, Tindall
Back-three: Sharples, Simpson-Daniel, Cueto, Ashton, Foden
Sharples can play 15, Simpson-Daniel can play 13 and Flood can play 12.
I refuse to include Hape, Banahan and/or Armitage
Last edited:
Duckdee
First XV
Some good, some surprising.
iWin
Academy Player
Can't edit my original post?
I'm actually very disappointed with this selection. There are so many people there who shouldn't be and quite a few who I think miss out unfairly.
Botha, Chuter, Deacon, Fourie, Mears, Payne, Shaw, Sheridan, Waldrom (less of an issue), Worsley, Armitage, Banahan, Flutey and Hape are all taking the place of far better options.
I honestly can't believe that people like Brown, Trinder, Twelvetrees, Kitchener, Gaskell and Johnson who have all been great in the Churchill cup and all season are losing out to that lot.
I mean, seriously. Deacon AND Payne? Does MJ not want to win anything?
I'm actually very disappointed with this selection. There are so many people there who shouldn't be and quite a few who I think miss out unfairly.
Botha, Chuter, Deacon, Fourie, Mears, Payne, Shaw, Sheridan, Waldrom (less of an issue), Worsley, Armitage, Banahan, Flutey and Hape are all taking the place of far better options.
I honestly can't believe that people like Brown, Trinder, Twelvetrees, Kitchener, Gaskell and Johnson who have all been great in the Churchill cup and all season are losing out to that lot.
I mean, seriously. Deacon AND Payne? Does MJ not want to win anything?
I'm surprised at no Brown, to be honest, not at the others you mentioned - they'll be there after the WC
I predict Flutey will get injured in one of the warm up matches and Twelvetrees will be called up, though
10?
Matt Stevens is half England (English dad)
Shaw was born to English parents in Kenya
Waldrom has English family (apparently)
I predict Flutey will get injured in one of the warm up matches and Twelvetrees will be called up, though
10?
- Botha
- Fourie
- Flutey
- Hape
Matt Stevens is half England (English dad)
Shaw was born to English parents in Kenya
Waldrom has English family (apparently)
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/
Interesting title from an Australian website about Matt Steven's being included in the squad - 'Drug prop' in England Squad
Interesting title from an Australian website about Matt Steven's being included in the squad - 'Drug prop' in England Squad
Aout
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Well, even if they came in England when they were young (12years spent abroad out of 19 for Tuilagi is not even half of his life), they are not English. But let's forget what I said, otherwise we will also have to speak about the Aus/Kiwis spoilation of the Pacific players. And I know it's a very sensitive topic on this forum.
I am glad that Matt Stevens is included as I think he is great player especially in the tight and I don't think he should be treated any differently because he has done drugs as he has taken his punishment for it and should be allowed to move on. I am a bit disappointed that Brown has not been picked as I am a big fan of his and I think he is really talented.
I'm absoloutely Astounded by some of those picks.
- Armitage finished the season as he started - woeful, petulant and woeful (for twice the effect).
- Botha is neither good enough nor English enough.
- Chuter - Well, so long as it's not Mears.
- Deacon isn't good enough
- Mears - Good grief
- Payne - nothing more to be said
- Worsley - Hello 2004!
- HMS Banahan - No Surprise in his inclusion. Being the worlds greatest centre and all...
- Wigglesworth - Being 2nd fiddle at Sarries alone doesn't make you good enough.
But the ones who get me the most are them Doran-Jones, Hartley, Lawes, Wood, Ashton and Foden chaps. Shurely they're not test rugby players. All of them need at least another 10-15 years to focus on their club rugby before they're experienced enough (and not to mention OLD enough) to warrant England selection...
Sadly it's the blight of the Elitist old farts in control of every union (you could try to name me a country which doesn't poach forigeners, but it's an impoissible ask). Mostly why Test rugby is such a joke.
- Armitage finished the season as he started - woeful, petulant and woeful (for twice the effect).
- Botha is neither good enough nor English enough.
- Chuter - Well, so long as it's not Mears.
- Deacon isn't good enough
- Mears - Good grief
- Payne - nothing more to be said
- Worsley - Hello 2004!
- HMS Banahan - No Surprise in his inclusion. Being the worlds greatest centre and all...
- Wigglesworth - Being 2nd fiddle at Sarries alone doesn't make you good enough.
But the ones who get me the most are them Doran-Jones, Hartley, Lawes, Wood, Ashton and Foden chaps. Shurely they're not test rugby players. All of them need at least another 10-15 years to focus on their club rugby before they're experienced enough (and not to mention OLD enough) to warrant England selection...
Sadly it's the blight of the Elitist old farts in control of every union (you could try to name me a country which doesn't poach forigeners, but it's an impoissible ask). Mostly why Test rugby is such a joke.
iWin
Academy Player
That's nonsense. Your idea of nationality seems to focus on country of birth, which is clearly a flawed definition.
I have a friend who was born in France while his parents were on holiday there. He is not French.
As a different, though related, example: my dad was born in England, but his parents are both Polish and Polish is his first language. He is Polish.
Dismissing Hartley, Corbisiero and Tuilagi as 'Not English' when they have grown up here is silly.
Also, while 7 years may not be half of Tuilagi's life, you would be fully justified in saying that he grew up in England. He's come through our school and academy systems, and considers himself English.
On the subject of Stevens, from a rugby perspective I'm happy to see him there as he's definitely a good player, but I still do not think that he should be allowed into the national team.
When you're selected for England, you're there to represent the country. Those players are role-models and examples of what we consider to be the very best in our country. I, personally, don't think that someone who has been banned for more than 3-4 months should ever be considered a part of that group.
Muse_Cubed
Academy Player
Chuter, Payne, Mears, Worsley, Armitage and Flutey shouldn't be included outright based on recent form. There are a few bubble players who I'd argue are less deserving than a lot of others. I do like the inclusion Sharples, JSD (FINALLY getting a chance, although knowing England he'll get dropped) and Robshaw, but this selection is generally pretty conservative (and, to be honest, thoroughly predictable). I'm wincing at the thought of who's going to end up in the midfield...ultimately, you can't polish a turd.
If players learn their rugby in England then does 'englishness' matter?' Shaw did not learn to be a world class lock in the time he spent in Kenya... manu tuilagi has spent his formative years developing by playing rugby in english schools and the daily mail cup and is now in an english club. Agree that it seems a bit different for someone liek Hape who has played rugby league for new zealand but who are you to tell him that hes not english?
Four kiwis?
I count 2.75 (Hape, Flutey and three quarters of Waldrom)
Anyone who has heard Manu Tuilagi talk would have no doubts over the fact he was raised in the East Midlands
I count 2.75 (Hape, Flutey and three quarters of Waldrom)
Anyone who has heard Manu Tuilagi talk would have no doubts over the fact he was raised in the East Midlands
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My definiton of nationality is actually based on where you were born, where does your parent come from and where you have been living. It's a mix of everything. But please do not tell me that Waldrom has anything to do with England.
I don't understand what you're trying to achieve?
He's in the squad, that's that.
He's in the squad, that's that.
They were all great in the Churchill cup - however against poor opposition. I had hope that Twelvetrees might have got in
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