England Training Squad

[Jbobo]

Well if it's only for players who have turned down central contracts I'll save my judgment for next six nations when presumably Jamie Roberts and Toby Faletau will be left out for others in their respective position whom have signed central contracts now that Toby and Jamie have turned theirs down .....

Imho the only person that has fallen foul of the words Gatland has said is Dwayne Peel

You're forgetting the 2 wildcats he can choose...I.e priest land and Roberts. Gatland has no obligation to choose anyone over Roberts. Toby hasn't left Wales yet.

I do agree that if more players leave Wales than the policy allows, then he should pick which players to keep and which to leave out, based on his agreement with the regions.
The problem is money and the English and French clubs are starving us, until that changes players won't stop leaving. Although the WRU could be doing a huge amount more to help. I.e increasing amount of money available for central contracts.

Anyway, I didn't make my initial comments to sit and argue about the merits on Wales's selection policy. You were saying that Lancaster has set a precedence that others should follow...
All this has proved is how your initial comparison between Gatlands selection policy (WRU actually, not Gatland) and lancasters policy on behavior is complete tosh. As proved that Gatland has not gone against any rules or 'his word', thus not meriting mention in the slightest.

If you've got no response to my points regarding Lancaster in this England thread, I'll take my leave and assume my points have been adequately expressed.

 

[ncurd]

Flood is far, far more similar to Ford than he is Farrell.

Farrell doesn't play a similar game to Flood!

Fair enough it may be a long time since I remember watching Flood, however I always saw Flood as defensive fly-half with some attacking credibility. It might just be Ford's ability to unlock defences (last weekend aside) I think of just about every other fly-half as defensive.

 

[Peat]

Fair enough it may be a long time since I remember watching Flood, however I always saw Flood as defensive fly-half with some attacking credibility. It might just be Ford's ability to unlock defences (last weekend aside) I think of just about every other fly-half as defensive.

I think the main thing to remember about Flood is he spent most of his career trying to polish a turd. What international fly-half wouldn't shed the most exquisite tear of joy to look outside him and see the likes of Shontayne Hape, Mike Tindall and Jamie Noon? What man wouldn't dedicate his life to good works in thanks for receiving ball from the likes of Louis Deacon and Steve Borthwick, Tim Payne and a half-fit Lewis Moody? The few times we did give Flood a platform in an England shirt, he showed a real ability to take the defensive line on and find his runners right on the gain line - just like Ford. Me, personally, most times I see Ford play I'm reminded of Flood and the fact they did work together.

Throw in issues with the shadow of Jonny, some mental fragility with his kicking and a critical tendency to break at the wrong moments, and he never really fulfilled his potential. Which is a massive shame, both for him and for England.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Ashton certainly could feel the difference between flood and Farrell with england

 

[Patchey]

Ashton certainly could feel the difference between flood and Farrell with england

Pendantic point but I always thought it was Foden that activated Ashton more...

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

This is definitely a conversation we on TRF have had in the past but for what it's worth I agree with Peat - you have to look at the tool kit Flood had at his disposal and compare it to our current midfield.

To put it another way - Imagine 10. Farrell 12. Hape 13. Tindall!
Flood's attacking of the gain-line was similar to Fords in some senses but ultimately Flood physically, in my opinion, wasn't quite optimum and it didn't allow him to routinely beat defenders in the way Slade and Ford can. Flood was not quite quick enough and arguably a bit too lanky!

 

[91jmay]

I wouldn't have kicked Manu out of World Cup squad, pushing a copper doesn't warrant missing a World Cup although the taxi driver headlock is worse IMO. Hitting women is awful and deplorable but if they are police I don't see how their gender can come into it especially for a push. I've seen the way police handle drunk people, no shrinking violets.

 

[Maverick1987]

You're forgetting the 2 wildcats he can choose...I.e priest land and Roberts. Gatland has no obligation to choose anyone over Roberts. Toby hasn't left Wales yet.

I do agree that if more players leave Wales than the policy allows, then he should pick which players to keep and which to leave out, based on his agreement with the regions.
The problem is money and the English and French clubs are starving us, until that changes players won't stop leaving. Although the WRU could be doing a huge amount more to help. I.e increasing amount of money available for central contracts.

Anyway, I didn't make my initial comments to sit and argue about the merits on Wales's selection policy. You were saying that Lancaster has set a precedence that others should follow...
All this has proved is how your initial comparison between Gatlands selection policy (WRU actually, not Gatland) and lancasters policy on behavior is complete tosh. As proved that Gatland has not gone against any rules or 'his word', thus not meriting mention in the slightest.

If you've got no response to my points regarding Lancaster in this England thread, I'll take my leave and assume my points have been adequately expressed.

I didn't say everyone should follow . I did say I admire Lancaster for sticking to his guns even though I would have dealt with Tuilagi differently . I've enjoyed this chat with you though learned some new stuff about the Wales teams selection policy .

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I wouldn't have kicked Manu out of World Cup squad, pushing a copper doesn't warrant missing a World Cup although the taxi driver headlock is worse IMO. Hitting women is awful and deplorable but if they are police I don't see how their gender can come into it especially for a push. I've seen the way police handle drunk people, no shrinking violets.

That is a foolish opinion. The police are there to be respected, without respect for authority how can any society keep peace and order?

Pushing a police officer should be a droppable offence. It pretty much sums up manu, the bunny ears on the priminister , ferry jump just no respect for authority.

 

[Maverick1987]

That is a foolish opinion. The police are there to be respected, without respect for authority how can any society keep peace and order?

Pushing a police officer should be a droppable offence. It pretty much sums up manu, the bunny ears on the priminister , ferry jump just no respect for authority.

Meh . Manu was punished accordingly by the authorities . Stuart Lancasters job is to win trophies as the England coach . If I was sat in Stuart Lancasters chair I would feel more comfortable about my teams chances with Manu, Hartley and Cipriani available at the end of the day

In fairness Stuart has done a good job repairing England's reputation after 2011 . He would have been forgiven by most for allowing Tuilagi to play imo

 

[thechosenfamily]

Meh . Manu was punished accordingly by the authorities . Stuart Lancasters job is to win trophies as the England coach . If I was sat in Stuart Lancasters chair I would feel more comfortable about my teams chances with Manu, Hartley and Cipriani available at the end of the day

In fairness Stuart has done a good job repairing England's reputation after 2011 . He would have been forgiven by most for allowing Tuilagi to play imo

Can't say I totally agree with this.

The British press is notorious for hyping up teams\players and then destroying them and the red tops especially for rugby.

Had Lancaster not acted quickly when the news broke then the press would have been all over it and forced the drop anyway.

Especially as it involved assaults on females, plod or otherwise.

I am a big fan of Manny but, in this case, I think Lancaster fended off a real PR nightmare by acting quickly and decisively.

 

[91jmay]

That is a foolish opinion. The police are there to be respected, without respect for authority how can any society keep peace and order?

Pushing a police officer should be a droppable offence. It pretty much sums up manu, the bunny ears on the priminister , ferry jump just no respect for authority.

As long as you've never broken a law in your life, I will allow your high horse.

Otherwise, you clearly don't respect authorities?

 

[Thingimubob]

As long as you've never broken a law in your life, I will allow your high horse.

Otherwise, you clearly don't respect authorities?

Tuilagi, as an elite sportsman is supposed to be a role model. Pushing Police officers, after having a taxi driver in a headlock, is not what role models are meant to do...

I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that the police officers (irrespective of their gender) were likely quite a bit smaller than Tuilagi, so I can't help but feel the shove wasn't a lighthearted one. (Don't hold me to that one, as just like everyone else, I'm just going off the reports)

Lancaster was pretty much spot on for not considering him for selection. The guy assaulted someone, and then resisted arrest. Simply put, he doesn't really deserve the opportunity to go to rugby's showpiece event.

 

[Peat]

This is definitely a conversation we on TRF have had in the past but for what it's worth I agree with Peat - you have to look at the tool kit Flood had at his disposal and compare it to our current midfield.

To put it another way - Imagine 10. Farrell 12. Hape 13. Tindall!
Flood's attacking of the gain-line was similar to Fords in some senses but ultimately Flood physically, in my opinion, wasn't quite optimum and it didn't allow him to routinely beat defenders in the way Slade and Ford can. Flood was not quite quick enough and arguably a bit too lanky!

True but Slade's lankier...

Will be interesting to see what happens if they force Slade to bulk up, whether he retains his pace and agility.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

True but Slade's lankier...

Will be interesting to see what happens if they force Slade to bulk up, whether he retains his pace and agility.

Google tells me that flood and Slade are the same height - I didn't expect this and it supports what you're saying. Although flood is considerably more bulky which may go some but not all the way towards explaining why flood felt so ungainly. Slade just seems to have a more natural footballing poise and almost glides.

 

[Peat]

Google tells me that flood and Slade are the same height - I didn't expect this and it supports what you're saying. Although flood is considerably more bulky which may go some but not all the way towards explaining why flood felt so ungainly. Slade just seems to have a more natural footballing poise and almost glides.

Only 3 more kg tbh. I thought Slade was both taller and significantly lighter.

I think, looking back, Flood just wasn't a natural athlete on the same level as those two. Far more likely to make a half-break and need support than the full shilling. But still a serious player for all that.

 

[Maverick1987]

Tuilagi, as an elite sportsman is supposed to be a role model. Pushing Police officers, after having a taxi driver in a headlock, is not what role models are meant to do...

I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that the police officers (irrespective of their gender) were likely quite a bit smaller than Tuilagi, so I can't help but feel the shove wasn't a lighthearted one. (Don't hold me to that one, as just like everyone else, I'm just going off the reports)

Lancaster was pretty much spot on for not considering him for selection. The guy assaulted someone, and then resisted arrest. Simply put, he doesn't really deserve the opportunity to go to rugby's showpiece event.

I don't agree . Stuart Lancaster has been hired for a very simple reason to win England the World Cup . He would have a better chance of doing that if he had Manu and Hartley in his squad . Fine them or whatever but dropping them all together from a squad of players for the most important competition of your managerial career is ott for me

 

[j'nuh]

I don't agree . Stuart Lancaster has been hired for a very simple reason to win England the World Cup . He would have a better chance of doing that if he had Manu and Hartley in his squad . Fine them or whatever but dropping them all together from a squad of players for the most important competition of your managerial career is ott for me

1. Johnson's leniency towards off-field indiscipline was the main reason England went through the WC meltdown that ultimately cost Johnson his job and allowed Lancaster to come into the role.
2. Lancaster has the highest profile job of anyone in the RFU. His policies have major PR repercussions, which can affect the RFU's perception by the grassroots up to sponsors.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I don't agree . Stuart Lancaster has been hired for a very simple reason to win England the World Cup . He would have a better chance of doing that if he had Manu and Hartley in his squad . Fine them or whatever but dropping them all together from a squad of players for the most important competition of your managerial career is ott for me

It's proven and is a tester for many of the specialist armed forces that disciple and being in the correct team work mental frame is an important part of trusting your team and building a winning atmosphere.

Manu has shown a lack of discipline, how can other players trust him in that same way? He didn't act in the best interest for England rugby, Leicester Tigers or his family.

Winning the World Cup is. Or just about player ability, but about lots of other smaller things as well that all work together. Discipline on and off the field is part of that

 

[GeorgeFisher7]

Chris ashton, the most overatted player in England