England vs Argentina - 05/07/25

[Vieux Talonneur]

Sticking to locks, he's got more caps than Dave Attwood, Geoff Parling, and Louis Deacon. How's that fair?

In lies, damned lies and statistics vol 4:

% of caps won:

Parling: 58%

Attwood: 67%

Deacon: 55%

Ewels: 78%

M Johnson 79%

Maybe Ewels is just a consummate team man helping get the best out of others while not getting the glory himself. Is one take.

Would still have picked Isiekwe myself.

 

[LIONSxv]

I dont disagree with that, and Steward wouldnt be my choice of 15...but we need to try and get some positives. Offensively he can be a huge asset if used right.

Its up to the defensive coach to put a plan in to limit his exposure to fancy footwork

I like his carrying game and his aerial game is 1st class.

His top end speed can be improved with coaching. However to my knowledge his issues are dexterity, agility which are much more difficult to coach

His positional play can definitely be better.

 

[LIONSxv]

Charlie Ewels in England shirt makes we want to vomit

 

[Geordie]

I like his carrying game and his aerial game is 1st class.

His top end speed can be improved with coaching. However to my knowledge his issues are dexterity, agility which are much more difficult to coach

His positional play can definitely be better.

And i wouldnt disagree with that at all.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Tactically - Borthwick is yet to excite me, or show me that he was the right man for the job 2 years ago. Whilst he did enough in the RWC23 to get to this point, I don't think I'd be renewing his contract from here if I were the RFU. But all of that is a "I wouldn't start from here" - which isn't terribly useful.
ETA: Just having a quick look, and even with the good results in this year's 6N, he's up to 53% win ratio, sitting between Andy Robinson and Brian Ashton in the table

SB's going nowhere.

He's just delivered our best 6N result in years. Definitely got the rub of the green in a couple but hey.

Last year we also beat Ireland and blew a couple of gilt edged chances to beat NZ through kicking malfunctions that are solely down to the players.

We've got the makings of a very good pack and the back line has changed out of all recognition since the RWC, and is potentially very exciting.

We've kind of got to the stage where we'll be competitive against anyone and there have been loads of close games that could have gone either way. Part luck, part judgement, but SB now has the bullets at his disposal to kick on and start regularly winning and in some style. Remains to be seen if he can - I retain doubts - but he'll get the chance.

 

[mikebrownsauce1512]

Don't like it, won't watch it. Borthwick has killed my support

**** off then negative ****

 

[NickBD]

I guarantee you he watches the game as well lol.

Anyway congrats to George Ford though, to be honest with the season he had I think he is unlucky to not have is 100th on the Lions tour but he gets it here.

Look England are missing 26 first team players to injury and the Lions, I think thats a very competitive team to put out. I can take Ewels as 6th choice lock, Muir is back to the back so its fine probably in after his performance of the final weeks back and Steward is also fine. However Slade, Dan and Dombrandt are very lucky. Slade is clearly done at this level, the other 2 have failed at this level and there is clearly way better options in the squad.

 

[Geordie]

I'm hoping Slade is for one game and Ojomoh or Beard gets the run out in the 2nd game.

Who would you say is the better defender at 13 out of those two?

Agree about Dan...not sure what im not seeing that SB is.

Dombrant I get it, but then I don't.
He's a totally different 8 , a creator who is also a hell of a turnover player. If he brought that game to this level then great.

The problem is he's proved over and over that he doesn't have the physicality for this level and fails to deliver. I also don't think he is the type of 8 that suits SBs game plan... especially as we have finally found one in Tom Willis.

 

[Geordie]

I really hope Seb Atkinson just has an all action game.... really put a marker down.

 

[IT157]

I really hope Seb Atkinson just has an all action game.... really put a marker down.

Guaranteed he drops the ball at some point and we never see him again in an England shirt...

 

[NickBD]

I'm hoping Slade is for one game and Ojomoh or Beard gets the run out in the 2nd game.

Who would you say is the better defender at 13 out of those two?

Agree about Dan ..not sure what in seeing that SB is. Dombrant I get it, but then I don't.

He's a totally different 8 , a creator who is also a hell of a turnover player. The problem is he's proved over and over that he doesn't have the physicality for this level and fails to deliver. I also don't think he is the type of 8 that suits SBs game plan... especially as we have finally found one in Tom Willis.

I wouldn't be against either to be honest. I"d love Ojomoh to get a shot. SB gonna say experience but I think Spencer, Ford and Steward can cover that. Maybe Slade has one tour in him who knows but Im not even sure Slade is even Premiership level based on his performances recently. I'd love to be wrong.

I just think Willis, Curry and Underhill have bags of experience so don't why you don't try Barbeary maybe even Fisilauor. Based on SB squad and selection I'd even put Hill on the bench with CCS covering 8 would be better then trying Dombrant again.

 

[Ddanno]

Agree about Dan...not sure what im not seeing that SB is.

Hastily granted central contract that he needs to be seen to get some value from

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I just think Willis, Curry and Underhill have bags of experience

Willis and Curry only have 4 starts each (think Willis has like 3 off the bench and Curry about 5 or 6?) - they both need the experience, especially Willis as 8 has been an issue for a while

 

[NickBD]

STARTING XV

1. VIVAS, Mayco (28 caps)
2. MONTOYA, Julián (105 caps) Captain
3. DELGADO, Pedro (2 caps)
4. PAULOS, Lucas (14 caps)
5. RUBIOLO, Pedro (20 caps)
6. MATERA, Pablo (109 caps) Vice-captain
7. GONZÁLEZ, Juan Martín (40 caps)
8. ISA, Facundo (51 caps)
9. BERTRANOU, Gonzalo (67 caps)
10. CARRERAS, Santiago (53 caps) Vice-captain
11. CORDERO, Santiago (54 caps)
12. PICCARDO, Justo (1 cap)
13. CINTI, Lucio (32 caps)
14. ISGRÓ, Rodrigo (7 caps)
15. ELIZALDE, Benjamín (0 caps)

FINISHERS

16. BERNASCONI, Bautista (0 caps)
17. GALLO, Thomas (35 caps)
18. CORIA MARCHETTI, Francisco (1 cap)
19. GRONDONA, Santiago (20 caps)
20. MORO, Joaquín (1 cap)
21. BENÍTEZ CRUZ, Simón (0 caps)
22. ROGER, Nicolás (0 caps)
23. MORONI, Matías (89 caps)

Argentina are still favourites but looking at this team they've rested a lot here I think Englands chances have gone up since after Lions game i though England had no chance on this tour.

 

[BrokenWing]

As much as I bemoan Stewards abilty to get stepped 99% of the time, the root of that particular problem is the defensive failing that lead to that situation.

It's like blaming a goalkeeper for not stopping many 1 V 1s or saving many penalties, by the time it's got to that situation it's a bit too late and you're hoping for the best more than anything.

Could he be a bit smarter with his positioning? Sure.

But statistically speaking what's better, a fullback that misses a 1 V 1, or one that gets beaten in a contest for every high ball that's kicked at him?

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Not sure. I understand why we are resting our half backs, and i dont dislike the current selection but i dont see them performing as well (if the plan remains unchanged). I love Cubelli but he is not as fast offensively, and given our pack i'd much prefer a SH that speeds up the delivery to our backs. He is much better at defense granted, but i dont see that being an issue here. I also like Carreras a lot, but his moments of genius tend to come with quite a bit of inconsistency and risk.

 

[TommiG88]

I guarantee you he watches the game as well lol.

Anyway congrats to George Ford though, to be honest with the season he had I think he is unlucky to not have is 100th on the Lions tour but he gets it here.

Look England are missing 26 first team players to injury and the Lions, I think thats a very competitive team to put out. I can take Ewels as 6th choice lock, Muir is back to the back so it’s fine probably in after his performance of the final weeks back and Steward is also fine. However Slade, Dan and Dombrandt are very lucky. Slade is clearly done at this level, the other 2 have failed at this level and there is clearly way better options in the squad.

Oh, I can guarantee I won’t

 

[NickBD]

Oh, I can guarantee I won't

You will or you wouldn't be this invested and be posting this much in this thread.

 

[TommiG88]

You will or you wouldn't be this invested and be posting this much in this thread.

I’m invested in England rugby, but it can be mutually inclusive where I can chat about it, but not actually watch it

 

[McTallshort]

I'm watching it because I now have sky sports. Oh yeah living life like a king.