England vs Argentina - 05/07/25

[Duck a l'Orange]

Henry Slade out of the tour with a hand injury.

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[BPM]

So finished watching finally.

I think most points have been made. Main one I disagree with is that England switched tactics in the second half. I don't think they did, instead they managed to win the ball back more after kicking. England only really had possession once in the Argentinian half during the first half and they played very attacking rugby. I think the tactic the whole time was the kick anything in their own half and try to win possession and then attack in the Argentinian half. However, they didn't get it right in the first half, too many mistakes and Argentina dealt with it better in the first half. Once they got more possession during the second half they actually had the chance to show the game plan.

It's still not ideal because better teams will make England pay for giving them that much possession and it's very dependent on an excellent defence which England had today. I still don't see us regularly beating the top 4 playing like that, but at least it felt a bit more ambitious than previously.

BTW, I watch it on this youtube vid and I absolutely loved the commentary during the second half. No idea which stream the guy who uploaded it switched to with his VPN, but so much more enjoyable to listen to than our boring English contingent.

Yep. Said pretty much the same thing during the game. As much as we didn’t get it right in the first half, I think it was also due to Argentina making a fast start.

I feel like a lot of England fans have a high tendency to criticise if we’re not doing well which often fails to recognise the opposition is good and trying hard to beat us or stop us from playing.

 

[BPM]

Henry Slade out of the tour with a hand injury.

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Seriously brave if he played most of the game with a suspected broken hand.

Going into the game with a centre partnership with a maximum of 2 caps (Atkinson and Northmore have 1 each) isn't ideal but at the same time, it's a great opportunity for Ojomoh or Beard (I’d be surprised if Northmore got the call).

 

[Ddanno]

Aye Northmore is surely just there for training numbers

 

[Geordie]

Well you have to back the lads...even if they're young and inexperienced. This is the place to test their mental strength and can they step up.

12 Atkinson
13 Ojomoh

Beard off bench

 

[McTallshort]

They were the ones I had for the whole game - loved it too,
They were genuinely excited by the big hits, and just generally sounded happy to be watching and commentating on rugby for a job

How do you get that commentary? I've heard them before the lead commentator is always good

 

[TRF_Olyy]

How do you get that commentary? I've heard them before the lead commentator is always good

Dodgy stream!

 

[BPM]

Well you have to back the lads...even if they're young and inexperienced. This is the place to test their mental strength and can they step up.

12 Atkinson
13 Ojomoh

Beard off bench

Yeah. That’s what I’d go with too. Not much to choose between them but from a form POV, Ojomoh has the edge.

 

[Geordie]

Would you stick with the same team bar the enforced change at centre?

 

[Scotty]

Would you stick with the same team bar the enforced change at centre?

Ojomoh at 13, JVP and Murley to start and anyone but Ewels. Not sure who at 23.

Other than that I'm happy with Baxter and Hayes getting gametime and Rood and AoF of the bench. Back row is great.

Likely have a 5/3 bench with Dombrandt out.

Not sure who you were asking but I answered

 

[Geordie]

Ojomoh at 13, JVP and Murley to start and anyone but Ewels. Not sure who at 23.

Other than that I'm happy with Baxter and Hayes getting gametime and Rood and AoF of the bench. Back row is great.

Likely have a 5/3 bench with Dombrandt out.

Not sure who you were asking but I answered

Asking everyone

Whats the crack with Clarke? Is he injured...or just not rated as high as Ewells or Coles. Bit of a worry if hes not rated over Ewells.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Bigger concern would be them rating CCS over him

 

[Geordie]

Bigger concern would be them rating CCS over him

Very true

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Bigger concern would be them rating CCS over him

I guess the theory is that in 25 minutes off the bench the upside of CCS in the loose outweighs any compromising in the tight when there might only be a couple of scrums (his own ball line out is OKish). Which is probably fine unless he has to come on in the 5th minute.

And can we lay off the Ewels stuff a bit? Yes, he made a couple of bad mistakes and no, he’s not Johnson or Itoje. But he’s a decent enough, hard working player with a good winning record in an England shirt. Objectively debate what he does on the pitch (praise is also available….) or the merits of (non) selection, but let’s leave it at that.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I guess the theory is that in 25 minutes off the bench the upside of CCS in the loose outweighs any compromising in the tight when there might only be a couple of scrums (his own ball line out is OKish). Which is probably fine unless he has to come on in the 5th minute.

I do understand their twisted logic behind it, but still think that'd be much better served with him coming on into the backrow and having an actual lock coming on in the 2nd

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I do understand their twisted logic behind it, but still think that'd be much better served with him coming on into the backrow and having an actual lock coming on in the 2nd

100%.

 

[Which Tyler]

Would you stick with the same team bar the enforced change at centre?

Stick.
Slade was the only one I wanted changed anyway - and he gets cut slack for playing on with a broken hand.
The only other malfunction was the backrow : Spencer : Ford communication - which they solved in-game, and deserves another chance (besides, I trust Randall even less than I trust Spencer).

The other change is a 5:3 bench - not just on principle (though yes, on principle) but because Slade out means that we need someone to cover FH which means CAtkinson (or Spencer, but let's not tempt fate). JvP and CA on the bench needs someone to cover the outside backs.
I'd probably start Ojomoh t 13, with Beard on the bench.

Oh, and worth repeating - Thank you Andy Farrell for taking your son to Australia; otherwise I think we all know who Slade's replacement would have been.

 

[BrokenWing]

I've heard developers are close to a breakthrough with FazBot3000, the Angry Northern Artificial Intelligence. Once it's out of Beta, we won't need to keep leaving potential talent untested just to have someone who can "drive standards"

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Would you stick with the same team bar the enforced change at centre?

Winning’s important, but part of the point of a tour like this is experimentation. Without totally reinventing the wheel and apart from Slade….

Unfortunately it doesn’t ever look like it’s going to happen for Spencer so I’d be starting JvP.

Maybe give Pepper a start. Don’t mind instead of who but I don’t think you need him, Underhill and Curry in a 23.

Murley instead of Muir.

The bench should be mixed up a bit - preferably to 5:3. Landon for Dan, Isiekwe for Dombrandt. And a back instead of Pepper.

 

[Which Tyler]

Winning's important, but part of the point of a tour like this is experimentation.

Just on this point, and IMO
A] Playing without our lions is experimenting anyway
B] We've got the USA match for further experimentation
C] World cup seedings are based on rankings at the end of this year - so winning's kinda important right now.